st205 openions/feedback owners/ ex-owners

[Lith]

That applies to internal. Flow dynamics is not simple subject.
But roughly speaking there is some venturi effect on the wastegate ports (from inside the turbine housing of course) when there is low pressure after turbine wheel .
See on the CT20b the ports are drilled at 90' into the housing, having also a narrowing in there and faster than designed gas flow would cause reduction in flow of through the wastegate ports.

Appreciate the link to Wikipedia, I kinda understand venturi effect already....... low pressure is a relative term. Do you think the pressure behind the turbine is lower than atmospheric pressure, or just lower than in the turbine housing?

The turbo doesn't spin at a constant relative speed to the engine either, it has an actuator which allows it to pump more air until a measured pressure level is reached before it starts the gases bypassing.

The only disadvantage I can think of putting a big exhaust on a GT4 is that you end up hearing 3SGTE noises.

[dnalunchie]

lolz dont worry i imagine evo 2's arnt as reliable anyway

[iOnic]

hey guys I hate to throw a curve ball into the mix but how would an evo two line up against the chaser/205? in terms of performance and reliability?

in factory form they're about the same in a straight line with the evo coming out on top

reliability.......depends on how it's been looked after (the average evo 2 will have been raped to hell and back)

[dnalunchie]

hey guys I hate to throw a curve ball into the mix but how would an evo two line up against the chaser/205? in terms of performance and reliability?

in factory form they're about the same in a straight line with the evo coming out on top

reliability.......depends on how it's been looked after (the average evo 2 will have been raped to hell and back)

so all the EVO EVO EVO hype is over rated? I heard that they do like 12's factory?

[xsspeed]

Try finding a factory standard early evo might be hard though

[dnalunchie]

Try finding a factory standard early evo might be hard though

hmmm i guess ill stick with the st205

[iOnic]

so all the EVO EVO EVO hype is over rated? I heard that they do like 12's factory?

They are actually a good package - it's not all hype, people buy them because they certainly get results (the gt4 fanboy brigade led by sergei will swear black and blue that the gt4 is a better car in many ways...and it probably is - but out-of-the-box performance isn't one of those ways).....at the time there was nothing that came close in that class of vehicle. Early evos don't do 12's factory....but they don't take much to get there either......a good clutch, slight boost increase, exhaust and a lack of mechanical sympathy will get you there fairly quickly - it's no coincidence that the 10sec club is now saturated with evo's all running their factory drivetrain they're built like brick shithouses under there

[dnalunchie]

so all the EVO EVO EVO hype is over rated? I heard that they do like 12's factory?

They are actually a good package - it's not all hype, people buy them because they certainly get results (the gt4 fanboy brigade led by sergei will swear black and blue that the gt4 is a better car in many ways...and it probably is - but out-of-the-box performance isn't one of those ways).....at the time there was nothing that came close in that class of vehicle. Early evos don't do 12's factory....but they don't take much to get there either......a good clutch, slight boost increase, exhaust and a lack of mechanical sympathy will get you there fairly quickly - it's no coincidence that the 10sec club is now saturated with evo's all running their factory drivetrain they're built like brick shithouses under there

two questions A are the reliable and B are they expensive to fix or hard to work on if sumthing breaks?>

[iOnic]

A are the reliable

They are as reliable as any other car.......it's all about how you treat it and how it has been treated by previous owners. Evo's are notorious for having a hard life because muppets buy them and thrash the tits off them or wind the boost up and go for gold. They're pretty hard wearing cars, they were designed to bash around gravel rally stages so they're by no means "delicate". They'll take a good beating and you've gotta be *really* trying to break the 4G63 or the drivetrain attached to it

B are they expensive to fix

They're not cheap cars to start with......so don't expect them to be cheap to fix. The good thing about them being everywhere is that parts for them are easy to come by and generally priced well - that and there are 9 other revisions of the car to rob parts off and a VR4 as well for good measure

hard to work on if sumthing breaks?>

Not if you know your way around the engine bay. They aren't any harder to work on than any other jappa with a turbocharged inline 4 mounted transversely

[dnalunchie]

A are the reliable

They are as reliable as any other car.......it's all about how you treat it and how it has been treated by previous owners. Evo's are notorious for having a hard life because muppets buy them and thrash the tits off them or wind the boost up and go for gold. They're pretty hard wearing cars, they were designed to bash around gravel rally stages so they're by no means "delicate". They'll take a good beating and you've gotta be *really* trying to break the 4G63 or the drivetrain attached to it

B are they expensive to fix

They're not cheap cars to start with......so don't expect them to be cheap to fix. The good thing about them being everywhere is that parts for them are easy to come by and generally priced well - that and there are 9 other revisions of the car to rob parts off and a VR4 as well for good measure

hard to work on if sumthing breaks?>

Not if you know your way around the engine bay. They aren't any harder to work on than any other jappa with a turbocharged inline 4 mounted transversely

how would you compare them with the st205 on the above points?> price? performance, reliability etc

[snwtoy]

....

This man writes teh truth

The Evo is a quicker car than the Celica, but the Celica will get you there nearly as fast and in a lot more comfort.

The Evo is more balls out like the TypeR. Celica vs Evo is apples and oranges really.

[sergei]

That applies to internal. Flow dynamics is not simple subject.
But roughly speaking there is some venturi effect on the wastegate ports (from inside the turbine housing of course) when there is low pressure after turbine wheel .
See on the CT20b the ports are drilled at 90' into the housing, having also a narrowing in there and faster than designed gas flow would cause reduction in flow of through the wastegate ports.

Appreciate the link to Wikipedia, I kinda understand venturi effect already....... low pressure is a relative term. Do you think the pressure behind the turbine is lower than atmospheric pressure, or just lower than in the turbine housing?

The turbo doesn't spin at a constant relative speed to the engine either, it has an actuator which allows it to pump more air until a measured pressure level is reached before it starts the gases bypassing.

The only disadvantage I can think of putting a big exhaust on a GT4 is that you end up hearing 3SGTE noises.

That is the point as the stock waste gate is too restrictive.

[Lith]

OK Just making sure, the way you were moving around it was hard to tell what the point you were trying to make was.

[B1NZ]

two questions A are the reliable and B are they expensive to fix or hard to work on if sumthing breaks?>

From what I've seen the 4G63 is an almost bulletproof engine when it comes to reliability and as iconic has staed you have to be really trying to destroy one!

I have differeing views about the drivetrain though, I have seen a few evo gearboxes/transfer boxes lunch themselves but this is has always been on modified cars. Evos have rubbish cheap Mitsi interiors with a couple of nice seats thrown in though.

STiI's in stock form were always quicker than the evo and IMO have alot nicer interior and drive nicer except the Evo 5 STi V5 for memory, But if your looking to Mod the Mitsi will probably take a bit more punishment and will be easier/cheaper to get reliable power from.

An unmolested Evo provided you like them would be a good buy but good luck finding one

Just out of interest what were the details of your old GT Legacy you had problems with?

[iOnic]

how would you compare them with the st205 on the above points?> price? performance, reliability etc

If you're on a budget the st205 is less likely to drive you to depression They're cheaper to buy, they perform fairly well and they're fairly reliable as well. They're not as easy to work on as an evo in terms of doing clutches, intercooler being where it is, engine being on a lean etc but then you won't have to open them up often if it's had a good life. If you have the extra to spend I'd go for the evo - you get more out of the factory package. But if you're strictly on a budget an st205 will set you right. Just don't expect to hop in and beat everything

As for being reliable......again like most cars it all depends on history. Don't listen to the "it's a Toyota it'll go forever" wankers, it's people like them that are the reason behind most mechanical failures because they don't maintain and care for their cars as well as they should due to the false pretense that Toyota makes cars differently to other manufacturers. Unless it's a K series, it's gonna break sooner or later if it's neglected. Reliability isn't something that goes across the board....I've seen ST205's with plenty of km's and I've seen others die before their first cambelt change It's all in how you and previous owners have treated the car......

[Jdawg]

Why does everybody compare evo/impreza with Celica?
They are small class cars and the Celica is more intermediate class car. You should be comparing them with Corolla type cars and Celica ST205 with Legacy and VR4

I remember when the first Evo came out, They made a big impact on the Car reviewers car mags. That is why the hype. They were hyped from day 1, but by the press more than the factory which makes a difference in if a car becomes legendary.

[DeeCee]

2L AWD rally machines.. thats why there is the comparison.

[dnalunchie]

two questions A are the reliable and B are they expensive to fix or hard to work on if sumthing breaks?>

From what I've seen the 4G63 is an almost bulletproof engine when it comes to reliability and as iconic has staed you have to be really trying to destroy one!

I have differeing views about the drivetrain though, I have seen a few evo gearboxes/transfer boxes lunch themselves but this is has always been on modified cars. Evos have rubbish cheap Mitsi interiors with a couple of nice seats thrown in though.

STiI's in stock form were always quicker than the evo and IMO have alot nicer interior and drive nicer except the Evo 5 STi V5 for memory, But if your looking to Mod the Mitsi will probably take a bit more punishment and will be easier/cheaper to get reliable power from.

An unmolested Evo provided you like them would be a good buy but good luck finding one

Just out of interest what were the details of your old GT Legacy you had problems with?

my legacy was a 1990 single turbo auto, first it droped a piston, (only running on 11psi) so i swapped in a new engine then the gearbox went, so I ended up selling it for $2,500 when i paid 4000 for it new and spent another 3000 maintaining it, i know this isnt true for all subie's but it did put me off them a little. The only thing that scares me about the likes of an evo 2 or 3 is the price they seem to be asking $15,000+ for a 1993/4 car where as even the mintest st205 from 1998 would not got for more than $10,000 privatly or maybe 12-13 on a yard.

Also as others have said, good luck finding an evo that hasnt been thrashed

[Dell'Orto]

Try finding a factory standard early evo might be hard though

Believe it or not, I actually saw a factory standard Evo 1 a few months back, was incredible. Pity the chap had just overheated it

[xsspeed]

Overheating is factory spec?

I am sure they are about but, as said most early evos by now have been pretty thrashed/rangi mods etc

I reckon a stock example of any of the 'rally spec' from early 90s would be choice