2007 diff failure

[99gtt]

Long story , I bought a new van in november 2007 i have done 57000 kms in it , for the last month when i load my van with carpet and drive around right hand corners i got vibration through the left rear wheel. On tuesday i loaded up a house lot of carpet at my wharehouse, and headed to the customers house on the way there i got what felt like a puncture on the left rear wheel, so stopped , checked and found nothing. Carried on and then bang huge thud in the back endof the van . I drove home that night, with it thuding in the rear ,but at 40kms hour as it felt like the left rear was locking up. Took it toyota in the morning and the guy jacked it up and turned the wheel and said thats poked you been doing to many burn outs, your spider gears are gone. That infurated me with that smart ass comment, as i dont do burnouts in my van. I do go on alot of loose metal and muddy driveways as a fare ammount of new homes have no drive ways when i get there, where the wheels would spin. So toyota say no it is abuse, it is not covered . So now the fight starts can any one help with my arguement, as my old van did 330 000 kms and had no such problem.

[rollaholic]

its not the burnout itself that damages a diff, as once the wheel(s) are spinning its just like the car is driving along (at least so far as the diff is concerned) its the snap of breaking traction - going from zero torque transmission to max in one fell swoop. so wheel spinning around on grass and gravel etc is going to do negligible harm, especially to a diff that should be as tough as helen clarks gonads.

in my opinion the best thing to do is speak to someone senior at your local dealership, try and keep your anger under control, outline the situation and tell them you want it sorted out. if they still refuse, start making a fuss and dont stop until its easier for them to fix it and get rid of you than to keep fighting it. did you get your previous van new as well? im surprised they arent looking after a customer that buys new vehicles!

im also surprised at a dealership making a fuss over a warranty claim, as i was under the impression that they were covered by toyota international anyway.

[evil_si]

the last place i worked one of the new 4wd hiluxs we had blew a diff,

toyota at first refused to cover with warranty, it got very political and they did cover it in the end, it took 9 weeks to fix and we wernt given a loan vehicle

[lucasthefallen]

..... the dealership doesn't decide wether its warranty or not. toyota new zealand does, so in my experience the best way to get what you need out of toyota is to ring TNZ in palmy and start complaining their. because the dealership doesn't have much influence wether or not something is deemed to be warranty or not. not nearly as much influence as what an upset customer has.

also warranty process is.... dealership fix's issues and TNZ is billed > TNZ access claim and pays dealer > TNZ sends bill to TMC > TMC access and pay TNZ

so the dealer doesn't want to make the hard call as TNZ wont pay if they think TMC is likely to reject the claim.

[99gtt]

the dealership submitted the report and tnz have said they wont cover it , I have then rung toyota nz myself and i will here back on monday . I will not give up on this as i beleive this is a fault . The head mechanic said that nz post have had plenty of failures on the rural post vans , and toyota did not cover them . They were advised to upgrade to an lsd to solve the problem at there own cost. I might be just one fish in a big ocean , but if they dont come to the party i will approach fair go or target as this just seems wrong.

[strx7]

unfortunetly newer toyotas arent made from the same materials older ones are. C52 gearboxes in ZZE122 corolla's are a prime example of this.

[rollaholic]

sounds like its somewhat common then! outrageous to suggest an upgrade at users cost to 'fix' the problem, the vans are only being used for what they were designed for.

[Mr Revhead]

Toyota are normally pretty good on warrantys on new vehicles.
It sounds as if after inspection they have found evidence of shock loadings, as mentioned above.
however you drove it for a month with a horrible noise.... Thats probably enough to void the warranty.
These diffs are not know for weakness.... And they are the same internals as have been in the hiaces and hiluxs since about 1989.

If you can get it done under warranty, get it upgraded to an LSD as it sounds like you need one. you will have to pay the difference.
Iv driven heaps of these things, and they really do need an LSD if you are even looking at a gravel road, hell even hills with corners need an lsd.

[Bling]

Are we talking spinning the wheels driving up a steep gravel drive or just gravel in general?

I only ever have a wheel let go if i'm driving up a steep gravel drive. Will be at sites before you aswell so I see some shocking access . Though my engine (2001) probably has less power/torque.

Boss had a clutch die after 60-70k on his new Navara. We thought that was a bit of a short life for a clutch, 4WD or not! So I went along with him one day and could hear he was riding the clutch a bit too much, told him this and after getting told there was no fault (other than wear) with the clutch after it was replaced came to the conclusion it was his driving that did it.

Needless to say he doesn't ride it at all anymore

So could just be extra hard life / bad luck in your case. So warranty cover would always be a gamble if they suspect abuse after inspection. Lifes not fair etc.

my 2c

[Mr Revhead]

Are we talking spinning the wheels driving up a steep gravel drive or just gravel in general?

spinning isnt an issue
but if you say take a sharp corner and pick up the inside wheel, it spins then it bangs back down. or say spinning a wheel on gravel, then it grips suddenly. those kind of shocks are what damages things. just wheel spin that peters out isnt a problem at all. its like falling, the fall doesn't hurt. its the sudden stop and the end!

[Bling]

This I realise, just trying to determine exactly how often he gets it spinning

Gravel hill is understandable, but gravel on the flat if you are spinning perhaps you are pushing it too hard. I mean sure. Just trying to get a picture of how hard he pushes it.

I have a sharp 180 corner on a hill I go up often. If I go around it at 20, no spin. If I hit it at 30+ the weight transfer means the inside wheel does spin. Same corner, different driving.

[rolla_fxgt]

So Revhead your saying, that its the gravel that's causing it?

If so, wouldn't Toyota NZ be opening themselves up to a huge Com Com investigation and fine for breach of the Fair Trading Act, under goods not being fit for the purpose?
Gravel roads are fairly common in NZ, and most tradesmen would be going on them fairly frequently, sometimes with heavy loads, sometimes fairly light, which could lead to spinning & gripping of the wheels intermittently.
If this is the case it would seem like TNZ are under specing the Hiaces for the NZ market by not fitting LSD's

[99gtt]

Toyota are normally pretty good on warrantys on new vehicles.
It sounds as if after inspection they have found evidence of shock loadings, as mentioned above.
however you drove it for a month with a horrible noise.... Thats probably enough to void the warranty.
These diffs are not know for weakness.... And they are the same internals as have been in the hiaces and hiluxs since about 1989.

If you can get it done under warranty, get it upgraded to an LSD as it sounds like you need one. you will have to pay the difference.
Iv driven heaps of these things, and they really do need an LSD if you are even looking at a gravel road, hell even hills with corners need an lsd.

Not all driveways have gravel alot have just clay specially Golden homes and as far as weight goes i do carry alot every day but not overloaded,as the tare weight is supposedly 1200 kg. A brand new factory diff as quoted by toyota $8000 and a brand new lsd diff $2500, how that works is beyond me.

[99gtt]

But my other van 1993 not a single fault apart from water pump and general maintance and 360000 kms on the clock and that took 17 years of carpet layer abuse .

[postfach]

as far as weight goes i do carry alot every day but not overloaded,as the tare weight is supposedly 1200 kg.

Tare weight is the weight of the vehicle unloaded and without fuel, not the maximum load the vehicle is designed to carry.

[Mr Revhead]

So Revhead your saying, that its the gravel that's causing it?

If so, wouldn't Toyota NZ be opening themselves up to a huge Com Com investigation and fine for breach of the Fair Trading Act, under goods not being fit for the purpose?
Gravel roads are fairly common in NZ, and most tradesmen would be going on them fairly frequently, sometimes with heavy loads, sometimes fairly light, which could lead to spinning & gripping of the wheels intermittently.
If this is the case it would seem like TNZ are under specing the Hiaces for the NZ market by not fitting LSD's

no, read what I said again

[rolla_fxgt]

So Revhead your saying, that its the gravel that's causing it?

If so, wouldn't Toyota NZ be opening themselves up to a huge Com Com investigation and fine for breach of the Fair Trading Act, under goods not being fit for the purpose?
Gravel roads are fairly common in NZ, and most tradesmen would be going on them fairly frequently, sometimes with heavy loads, sometimes fairly light, which could lead to spinning & gripping of the wheels intermittently.
If this is the case it would seem like TNZ are under specing the Hiaces for the NZ market by not fitting LSD's

no, read what I said again

Well the sudden gripping, from a wheel spinning & then catching again, a common occurrence on rutted/non-existent roads, both gravel & mud?

[Mr Revhead]

no. that's not what I'm talking about. gripping on gravel or mud roads is not as sudden or as "shocking" as when hitting seal.

What can cause the damage is situations that cause a sudden gain of traction after a period of none, ie lifting a wheel whilst turning. the sudden bang through the diff can hurt them if its done a lot. or high speed wheel spinning on gravel then hitting seal, the sudden shock from no traction to full traction can put a lot of stress on things. thats a lot different from wheel spin fading out and gripping on a loose surface.
Or, spinning your wheels at a round about, i know from experience that if you put your foot down in one around a tight roundabout than you will very easily spin the inside wheel, and you have done it in such a was as to get a lot of body roll then you will pick up that wheel and bang it back down quite hard. that sends an awful lot of shock through the diff.

Having said all that. im not the one looking at the inside of your diff. im only surmising maybes.

[Insighttech]

I thought that was not just the intial break of traction that was cause damage to the diff but when the wheel is spining, wouldn't that stuff the spider gears etc?

[Mr Revhead]

why? that's what they are there for