Toyspeed.org.nz Message Board

by **Bazda** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:16 pm

Thats not my car lol

by **rollaholic** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:17 pm

for what its worth, tama do heaps of servicing / regular mechanic stuff too. i couldnt comment on their familiarity with the 20v, but im sure reo knows the 16vs as well as anyone in NZ - and hes always good to deal with.

dont think many shops in NZ can survive purely on performance stuff

by **Dopamean** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:56 pm

So would I have a leg to stand on legally if I told them that there’s no way I'm bringing the car back nor paying them for the 2.5 hours they have spent on the car already?

Considering that they still have not diagnosed the fault correctly?

by **Mr Revhead** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:06 pm

thats not so clear cut....

If it was me I would be doing just that. As I know beyond all doubt that your car does not have the part they are trying to replace for you....

I would insist on getting a written quote along with a picture from the EPC of the parts they want to inspect/replace.
then you have documents to help your case that they are either incompetent or crooked.

Because at the moment they could just say "stupid customer got confused"

If they provide a quote for replacing hydraulic lifters along with EPC pictures of some, then tell them to stick it as far as they can and that you refuse to pay a cent as they are quite clearly out of their minds.

by **Dopamean** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:37 pm

I called the citizens advice bureau and this is what they advised me to write out, which I have done and am sending to the Service Centre.

From the facts I gave the guy over the phone he said they would have to take me to court to make me pay and at that they would have a bad case.

The gist for anything that your not happy with and the key is this:
Clearly state you dispute the bill in writing and it CANNOT be pursued by a debit collection agency nor can it be put on your credit record if the debit is disputed.

Here’s the letter I wrote: but not sent as yet.
I quoted you for relevance Mr Rev - hope you don't mind coming to court LOLZ

Dear Albany Service Centre / To Whom It May Concern,
I had originally come through because I thought that the Toyota Service centre would be familiar with my model car, 1996 Toyota Carib (Corolla NZ New) BlackTop 20v 1600 engine.

Unfortunately this is obviously not the case.
The car has had one you’re your mechanics spend 2.5 hours diagnosing the fault.
The fault initially I was told would take two hours to correct. After bringing the car in, I now have been told that it will take at least eight hours to resolve, to further this I have been told that the fourth hydraulic lifter is not receiving enough oil pressure and this is the noise coming from the engine.

I had told two of the service men that this car has a “shim and bucket” tappet setup and further investigation shows that no 4AGE engine has hydraulic lifters.
This makes the testing you proposed to do redundant and would cost me allot of money in unnecessary fault finding for parts that do not even exist on this engine.
I have obtained these facts via a well experienced ex Toyota service person that has worked on these engines many times, he suggested that you supply me the “EPC” of the part you propose to replace and an image of the parts you are talking about.
If you can show me that the parts (Hydraulic lifters) exist on this engine I will happily pay for the 2.5 hours spent working on my car.
If you cannot, since none of the work during that time made any difference to the fault and I believe that you are misdiagnosing the fault, quoting parts that do not exist on my vehicle
I dispute any owed money related to the two and a half hours already spent on my car.
I have found another mechanic to take my vehicle to who is familiar with these engines and replaced and resized the shims on a BlackTop 20v last Sunday, as this is what they have and not hydraulic lifters.

Regards
XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
Signed…………………………. …………….. Dated………………………………

by **Mr Revhead** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:56 pm

well, first thing is i'm not a toyota service person, was a parts guy!

second, before you do any of that, get the written quote and EPC picture. that would really firm up your case. without that, they can just say you were confused as you are not a mechanic....

just ring up and say "hey can you prepare me a quote and include a parts catalouge picture of the parts please, so i can justify the cost to the missus!" or something like that. dont let on that your not happy and investigating things until you have what you need!

Website · by **Bling** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:19 pm

Dopamean wrote:I've heard Tama Autos is good (West Auckland) but they are geared towards performance rather than standard stuff, I could be wrong though..

All I know about them is that they have bought rims off trademe, quick polish/paint then sell them off for ass raping prices. So i personally wouldn't go there as profit is clearly their top priority. Genuine oldschool fans can't always compete with a business that is only buying the rims for a profit, not for a good use.

Just my 2c though haha

/rant

If they are more performance orientated then probably not that into fault finding on a 20v, but who knows.

by **rollaholic** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:57 pm

profit is the top priority of a business? $&#$% me who would have thought it!

no-one is forcing people to pay crazy prices for old rims (and i do agree some of their prices are pretty high!)

if you ever actually dealt with them, you would find them all to be extremely helpful, friendly, and knowledgeable. reo in particular has spent plenty of time, both during and outside his work hours talking to me about my AE85 while i had it, knowing full well his advice was not going to earn him a cent as i was doing all the work myself. several times he talked me OUT of spending money on his parts, giving me a cheaper / easier way to solve problems.

if i were not a mechanic i would most certainly be taking my toyotas to tama

bit pointless now cos sounds like manon & butler sorted him out

Website · by **Bling** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:28 pm

Each to their own etc I did post it was a rant :wink:

I'm sure they are good at whatever it is they do.

by **matt dunn** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:03 pm

IMO to much info can also ruin stuff.

Delete the part
(Corolla NZ New)

as it has no relavance, and may be misleading.

Need to remember if it goes to small claims court etc,
the poeple there may have no knowledge of car at all,
and if you put something in there that is not correct or relavant,
you will come across bad as well.

by **Mr Revhead** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:09 pm

oh yeah didnt see that. its definitely not nz new!

by **Dopamean** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:17 am

Yeah,

I'm gona tweak it and I have not sent it too them yet.
Also I have asked for a quote on the parts, which I originally asked for earlier so there should be no reason for them to suspect I have any issues unless they are reading this post!

But yeah honestly, quoting for parts that do not exists and at a rate of $70 an hour I'm not happy to pay for that kind of service.

Its a shame because I'm likely to offend the guy that had done the homer for me......

Them’s the breaks I guess...

by **Dopamean** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:55 am

Update.......
They saw the light or read this post :lol:

Hi Daniel attached is the EPC of cam gear the cam followers are $55.04 each +gst from TNZ and shims $9.31each theses are ex Japan
We will need to remove cam shafts to replace followers this will take 2.5 hours to do this

They have attached the EPC and it looks correct.
Thanks again, with your input or the information I've gained from this forum I wouldn't have been able to second guess what they were telling me.

Bazda cheers dude but I'll probably get them to finish the job now because they have pulled there heads out of the sand.

by **Bazda** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:24 am

Dopamean wrote:Update.......
They saw the light or read this post

Hi Daniel attached is the EPC of cam gear the cam followers are $55.04 each +gst from TNZ and shims $9.31each theses are ex Japan
We will need to remove cam shafts to replace followers this will take 2.5 hours to do this

They have attached the EPC and it looks correct.
Thanks again, with your input or the information I've gained from this forum I wouldn't have been able to second guess what they were telling me.

Bazda cheers dude but I'll probably get them to finish the job now because they have pulled there heads out of the sand.

Obviously the tappet clearance has increased some how over time due to some wear on the buckets. But it must be some excessive wear!.
Or some shims could have fallen off due to over reving or missing a gear. Therefore all that needs to be done is place then back onto the valve.

I would ask them what is the tappet clearance before you go ordering parts that you may not need.

by **Mr Revhead** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:23 am

yeah why would you need to replace the lifters? a reshim I can understand. but not a lifter, unless the shim fell out (bloody unlikely) and damaged one.

Didnt you say the noise started suddenly? instead of gradually?
a gradual increase as things wear is beleivable
a sudden increase would point to a failure of some sort.

A shim dropping out would also most likely result ina dropped valve very soon after.

If you are still happy for them to do the work, they should remove the cam cover to look and confirm the fault. actaully they should have done that as step one.....
im still of the opinion you should stay the hell away from them

by **Bazda** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:34 am

Mr Revhead wrote:yeah why would you need to replace the lifters? a reshim I can understand. but not a lifter, unless the shim fell out (bloody unlikely) and damaged one.

Didnt you say the noise started suddenly? instead of gradually?
a gradual increase as things wear is beleivable
a sudden increase would point to a failure of some sort.

A shim dropping out would also most likely result ina dropped valve very soon after.

If you are still happy for them to do the work, they should remove the cam cover to look and confirm the fault. actaully they should have done that as step one.....
im still of the opinion you should stay the hell away from them

I had some shims fall out after missing some gears, they were just sitting underneath the buckets. Therefore lots of ticking noises.

by **Mr Revhead** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:37 am

lucky!

by **Bazda** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:22 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:lucky!

Also cracked the valve spring retainers from the shim pounding on them. So had to pull the head off to replace those.

by **Dopamean** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:37 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:im still of the opinion you should stay the hell away from them

I'll probably book into Bazdas old mans shop.
Get a second opinion.
They did remove the rocket cover and said there was no signs of wear.

Its totally got my knickers in a twist now.
Last three days the noise has gone to almost nothing…….
Dunno where that would leave me with Toyota.
I was only suggestiing to them what the noise sounded like to me - tappets.

I'm lost....

Second opinion is what I need now.

by **Bazda** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:40 pm

Dopamean wrote:
Mr Revhead wrote:im still of the opinion you should stay the hell away from them

I'll probably book into Bazdas old mans shop.
Get a second opinion.
They did remove the rocket cover and said there was no signs of wear.

Its totally got my knickers in a twist now.
Last three days the noise has gone to almost nothing…….
Dunno where that would leave me with Toyota.
I was only suggestiing to them what the noise sounded like to me - tappets.

I'm lost....

If you come down to the shop on a Sunday I will be there, I can check the clearances for you then.

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AE111 20v 4age hydraulic lifters and not shims & buckets

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