Hi-Tech Motorsport Ltd anyone had any experience with them?

[BZR4AGE]

Hi there guys.

I am looking at having my e-manage ultimate replaced with a Link G4.

I emailed a couple of performance shops, but this is the only one who replied so far.

Anyone had any experience with Hi-Tech Motorsport in Drury?

the guys name is Grady Homewood


http://www.hitechmotorsport.co.nz/index.html

[99gtt]

bob is pretty good but his tunes are really conservative

[lucasthefallen]

i'd strongly recommend talking to Jason at Papakura auto electrical.

very very smart man, and is passionate about what he does.

he tunes the hyabusa thats trying to get the land speed record in the states.


EDIT: dont get a link, similar money will get you into an autronic ecu and they are far better. as regards to injector control and tune-ability, also the datalogging is heaps better.

[levinguy]

hi tech motorsport seem to be a bit pricey, but with the service i have had from them so far, the prices are more then reasonable. the help they have given me with wiring up my microtech has been awesome, considering they haven't received a cent from me so far.

just remember you get what you pay for

[strx7]

hi-tech used to be bob homewood motorsport. very knowledgeable people who are great to deal with. Someone on here actually works there, 'atmosports' - Adrian or at least did a while back when i had dealings with them.

[Lith]

EDIT: dont get a link, similar money will get you into an autronic ecu and they are far better. as regards to injector control and tune-ability, also the datalogging is heaps better.

Have you had any experience tuning a G4 Link vs Autronic? Can you elaborate on the differences?

[atmosports]

Geuss you could say I still work there, though very part time when time allows as I do have a job as well. Mainly do machining work & custom CNC stuff & a little bit of development work for them.

I'd go Link G4 over Autronic unless you buy an SM4. Nothing wrong with Edgell's to deal with when buying an Autronic or getting it repaired/upgraded but I've been using Autronic SMC/SM2 for near on 15years & although the software has been updated & the ecu's have been updated a bit I feel the software now lets them down compared to the Link software for ease of use. Link is easier & more straight forward to install & works with a lot of factory sensors which Autronic doesn't allways. Data logging I'd say if your serious about data logging you should be running a Motec(ECU or logger) orelse a stand alone AIM/PI logger as either option pisses on either a Link or Autronic for data. Link g4 data logging is in it's infancy & I know thre is a lot of stuff in the works for it as I've given some input into what I'd want to log etc, but at the end of the day with either ecu there simply isn't enough spare inputs really to log anything apart from engine data. I'd also go with Link as there is more people available to tune them. Also it's an NZ company,the support is very good, so why not buy NZ made & keep them in business. Link also make the Vipec ecu's(Ray Hall who used to sell Autronic sells them) which are very similar to the g4's. This is just my opinion, I've been involved with the majority of aftermarket ecu brands for a good 15 years on various applications & have learnt the good & bad points of them all.

[lucasthefallen]

with out being rude, i dont want to get into a debate about what ecu's are the best etc.

i personally prefer the SM4, and find that the tuning software is more reliable. ( the link one always seems to have bugs, and when i ring them for support i just get told its a "windows" problem ) ive never had issues with the SM4.
eg: with the datalog, you can go into the fuel map and at any point see what the a/f ratio is compared to target, then you just click on the point your at and enter the target and actual, then it will change to the correct setting, where as on the link you have to click on the map at the point in question and "guess" what you should change the setting to, so it requires more playing around.

also i have found the SM4 to work with pretty much all toyota sensors etc

downside is, the SM4 is more expensive and you cant get a plug and play one to suit what you've got. so another expense is making a loom.
also i dont think anyone could argue agaisnt the fact that the link injector control needs some work to get it up to standard.

i think its just personal preference, and what system you find easiest to use.

[Lith]

with out being rude, i dont want to get into a debate about what ecu's are the best etc.

Wasn't trying to turn it into a debate, I am still learning about these things - haven't used an SM4 so was hoping to get an idea of where you are coming from.

So the issues you raise there are specifically to do with the G4s, or are you talking about the earlier Links which are a effectively a completely different beast?

[lucasthefallen]

I've really only dealt with the G4, so can't comment on the earlier ones. But a friend of mine is using an early link ( one just before G3 I think ), and it seems to operate fine. But I haven't really looked at

Have you had any software issues with your link?

[Malcolm]

the G4 software must be really crap if the Autronic software is better! Although I think the SM4 is a pretty good ECU for the $$, the software is just horrendous, and the help files are next to useless (often comically so). It's lucky there's people like Edgell around who know enough about them to fix most issues

[Crucible]

When I was looking at ecu for my old 4agte, I was told by a very reputable tuner that you will not make anymore power from an Autronic compared to a G3 link (at the time when they were new). He said yes an Autronic has some good features and can be "finer tuned", but power wise you wont see much differance between the two.

just my 2c.

[Malcolm]

I can't see any good reason why any ecu would make any more power than any other ecu. Usually the reasons for picking an ECU would be more to do with features, number of inputs/outputs, software, technical support, how well supported your engine/vehicle are supported (in terms of plug 'n play harnesses, OEM sensors etc), and the familiarity your tuner has with the ecu - but I doubt the power would vary except in the case where an ecu is so shit/poorly matched to the engine that it's incapable of doing what is required to function properly

[fivebob]

Maybe not in the case of one peak power run, but more consistent results and better drivability would be possible.

In order to get consistent results you need fire the ignition at the same point under the same conditions preferably to about 0.1° accuracy. To do this the ECU's timing algorithm needs to be as accurate as possible and to take into account varying engine acceleration through the engine cycle. This is where extra processing power comes in handy. The ECU can do more calculations and take advantage of a greater number of teeth on the crank position sensor. Also they can utilise better filtering algorithms to avoid erroneous signals.

Interestingly one of the threads that came up on an EFI forum when Ray Hall had his split with Autronic and was promoting his new Vipec(Link) ECUs was the alleged problem of timing drift in Autronic ECUs, and how the Vipec/Link was more stable

[strx7]

if your vehicle sees road driving time, then basically the more you pay, the nicer it will be to drive.

At the end of the day, a locked dizzy and a blow thru carby set up will make a car run, and can pull consistant 8's down the 1/4 mile, but drivability at different rpm/load/boost/vacuum/temps etc is what it all comes down to.

[Crucible]

if your vehicle sees road driving time, then basically the more you pay, the nicer it will be to drive.

At the end of the day, a locked dizzy and a blow thru carby set up will make a car run, and can pull consistant 8's down the 1/4 mile, but drivability at different rpm/load/boost/vacuum/temps etc is what it all comes down to.

yeah thats good point, my main concern was to keep out of detonation and having the proper a/f ratio under load. As long there were no hard start issues, Good economy off load and the thing idled thats all I wanted.

launch control on the links, well the g3s anyway arent very good IMO.

[2jayzgte]

While we are on the subject of ECU's how much does the resolution of the processor tell how good a ECU is I no the Apexi Power FC's were 20 20 and the HKS F-Con V Pro is 32 32 who can explain what this is means with regards to how good a ECU is ?????

[Lith]

While we are on the subject of ECU's how much does the resolution of the processor tell how good a ECU is I no the Apexi Power FC's were 20 20 and the HKS F-Con V Pro is 32 32 who can explain what this is means with regards to how good a ECU is ?????

Ok, I'm not sure how much you know about the whole thing so I'll give the simplest explanation I can give on how it works - For the ECU to work out how much timing and fuel is needed to make a nice safe and effective "bang" in the engine a fuel and an ignition table are put together by the tuner for it to check against. For simplicities sake, think of these tables as having 2 axis - rpm and load.

Now we could have a make-believe "budget" ECU using 4x4 tables:

................................LOAD
......................0%...25%...50%...100%
R 0000rpm.....??......??.......??.......??
E 2500rpm.....??......??.......??.......??
V 5000rpm.....??......??.......??.......??
S 7500rpm.....??......??.......??.......??

That would mean that with this ECU the same amount of fuel and timing will be used for any revs between 0 and 2499rpm and 0% to 25% load, and as you could imagine the amount of air the engine flows and the way it behaves with it would change SUBSTANTIALLY through that rev range so it means there is a lot of guesswork at play.

The higher the resolution the ECU supports, the less guessing there is. 20x20 is obviously sufficient in most cases, but with say 32x32 you can get the tune that much closer to what the engine wants as it becomes much less "one size fits all". The peak power doesn't tend to change much, it will often be more fussy things like throttle response or smoothness of power delivery which can be compromised with lower resolutions.

An easy example of how resolution can become a problem was from some fun we had with a VTEC Honda running a fairly basic ECU ages ago - one cell could represent >500rpm of a rev range, and somewhere in the middle of one of those ranges the engine substantially changes its breathing characteristics when VTEC engages. You put a number in the fuel table which suits how it breathes before the changeover and when it changes over, it ends up being a bit lean - change it to suit after the change over and it runs rich for the few rpm before the change over... if that makes sense?

ECUs have various other functions at play to help them fill in the blanks and cover different scenarios etc, some ECUs have more than others... hence the number of zones not being the be all of deciding how good an ECU. Hondata ECUs for example have completely different ignition and fuel tables for different valve timing modes which helps avoid my example situation...

Hope that helps a little

[2jayzgte]

Yep I've got you now the 2nd paragraph on the lower part of the page made alot of sense Cheers thats my learning done for today....

The explanation also explains what the HKS F-Con V-Pro has done to my car power delivery throttle response and smothiness of delivery are all traits my car has now since the F-Con was installed the car just seems to be able to do it alot easier and fuel economy on long runs has much improved aswell I saw over 500 km on a full tank running 1.3 bar on the open road so I was also stoked about that.Where as before the max I saw on a full tank was between 430-450 km.

[Malcolm]

That would mean that with this ECU the same amount of fuel and timing will be used for any revs between 0 and 2499rpm and 0% to 25% load, and as you could imagine the amount of air the engine flows and the way it behaves with it would change SUBSTANTIALLY through that rev range so it means there is a lot of guesswork at play.

I'm pretty sure most ECUs will (linearly?) interpolate values between cells in each table, so rather that moving through timing/fueling points in steps it follows a gradual curve through the values. The resolution then would be of most importance in areas of rapid change (like the scenario you mentioned when vtec engages between two cells).