gen 3 3sgte in mr2

[headshotnz]

Hey guys, was wondering how hard it is to put a gen 3 3sgte from a st205 into a turbo sw20.

example: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 091164.htm

i believe they have a better turbo (ct20b) plus they make 250hp from what the net says.

Any advice would be great.

[iOnic]

They come stock in 93+ (Gen3) Turbo MR2's. Don't count on Toyota's quoted power figures too much...they're rather optimistic.

[Dell'Orto]

Dunno, KiwiMR2's old Gen 3 made 190some rwkw with just intake and exhaust mods, stock boost too I think?

[dragonx]

Hey guys, was wondering how hard it is to put a gen 3 3sgte from a st205 into a turbo sw20.

forgetting the wiring issues

check this web page out

http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3S-GTE%20Conversion.htm

[sergei]

They come stock in 93+ (Gen3) Turbo MR2's. Don't count on Toyota's quoted power figures too much...they're rather optimistic.

I would not say so.
I think they are right on the mark unlike 4AGE.
The reasoning behind is that it is very easy to get 180+kW (@4WD) out CT20b on stock-ish boost (14-16psi). I have graph to prove it, and that was done with gen1 3SGTE stock motor (ST165), gen2 ECU and CT20b.

[MR2BOY23]

Talk to lucasthefallen from the mr2 forums

Either way its going to be expensive...why bother ?

[Boosted_162]

Not worth it for the minor gains. For cheap power upgrade just get a ct20b and a "chipped" ecu (one of the Blitz etc tuned ones)

[Rollux]

From memory Al who used to be on here had a CT20b, 3: exhaust and 19psi and made 197rwkw in his SW20.

[sergei]

The beauty of this is the gain/reliability you get.
When you chuck a gen 3 motor you will get extra 25-30hp, NA people will pay tens of thousands dollars to get that gain while turning their motor into a hand grenade.
Keeping it standard will also add to reliability unlike "just chucking a CT20b".
There are some minor differences between Gen2 and Gen3 motors that add up to being worth it.

That is if you can find a complete Gen3 motor with loom and ECU as well as turbo and intercooler for a good price, last time I checked in Japan, they quoted me ~$3000NZD (about 180,000 yen two years ago) for a lowish km complete package (including gearbox transfer case and diff).
At that time I opted out for brand new CT20b steel ($1500) off Mr Revhead and gearbox+transfer case+diff from Japan ($750) and ST205 intercooler ($150) due to budget restrictions (did not had lump sum at that time for whole thing).

[DeeCee]

engine mount differences (keep old ones), alternator differences (keep new one), ECU and loom differences.

Check mr2oc for swaps.

And I totally agree with sergei on the minor differences adding to a whole. Its why I went for gen3 as its a better platform to start from.

[Akane]

I'm doing it right now
you're gonna run into a lot of troubles, a lot of bits and pieces just ain't the same, sometimes you wonder what was toyota thinking........

[Mr Revhead]

no, you should wonder what YOU'RE doing
after all, it all works in their version

[Akane]

no, you should wonder what YOU'RE doing

If I knew what I'm doing, I'll have a sweet 180SX Type X sitting in my driveway instead of a crappy MR2

But yea, I used the alternator mounts from my Gen 2 SW20, the belt will not work as the crank pulley on the ST205 is different, water junction will need to be changed to Gen 3 SW20, coz Gen 2 SW20 does not fit a ST205 engine, bolts that holds the turbo to the exhaust manifold is different, dipstick is different IIRC, throttle body is different (cannot be used from a gen 2 SW20 as the dwells are on the exact opposite side), these are just the few things I can think off the back of my hand, it's a PITA getting the parts, I have all the parts and it's still a PITA. My Power FC won't turn with the Idle solenoid plugged in, there's a few engine hooks and supports that needs to be removed because they're supposed to be supporting the w2a intercooler as well. FAIL.

[MR2SIK]

just buy mine

[DeeCee]

no, you should wonder what YOU'RE doing

If I knew what I'm doing, I'll have a sweet 180SX Type X sitting in my driveway instead of a crappy MR2

But yea, I used the alternator mounts from my Gen 2 SW20, the belt will not work as the crank pulley on the ST205 is different, water junction will need to be changed to Gen 3 SW20, coz Gen 2 SW20 does not fit a ST205 engine, bolts that holds the turbo to the exhaust manifold is different, dipstick is different IIRC, throttle body is different (cannot be used from a gen 2 SW20 as the dwells are on the exact opposite side), these are just the few things I can think off the back of my hand, it's a PITA getting the parts, I have all the parts and it's still a PITA. My Power FC won't turn with the Idle solenoid plugged in, there's a few engine hooks and supports that needs to be removed because they're supposed to be supporting the w2a intercooler as well. FAIL.

It was never a straight swap:
1. cam belt is diff, 1 tooth less on gen3/4
2. diff inlet and exhaust manifold sizes
3. diff throttle body 55 -> 60mm
4. diff oil pump (i believe) - was it one less tooth on the pully that you had to swap over..
5. 2 piece oil pan
6. diff cams (though all 3sgte cams can be interchanged as well as some with 3sge)
7. bigger injections, bigger fuel rail. gen3/4 rail doesn't swap with gen1/2
etc

The only real way to do a gen 3 swap into gen 2 is to swap the whole thing, not try and salvage bits and bobs as required.

You have issues bolting off a couple of engine brackets and and hooks? Sounds to me like a fail right there

[Akane]

no, you should wonder what YOU'RE doing

If I knew what I'm doing, I'll have a sweet 180SX Type X sitting in my driveway instead of a crappy MR2

But yea, I used the alternator mounts from my Gen 2 SW20, the belt will not work as the crank pulley on the ST205 is different, water junction will need to be changed to Gen 3 SW20, coz Gen 2 SW20 does not fit a ST205 engine, bolts that holds the turbo to the exhaust manifold is different, dipstick is different IIRC, throttle body is different (cannot be used from a gen 2 SW20 as the dwells are on the exact opposite side), these are just the few things I can think off the back of my hand, it's a PITA getting the parts, I have all the parts and it's still a PITA. My Power FC won't turn with the Idle solenoid plugged in, there's a few engine hooks and supports that needs to be removed because they're supposed to be supporting the w2a intercooler as well. FAIL.

It was never a straight swap:
1. cam belt is diff, 1 tooth less on gen3/4
2. diff inlet and exhaust manifold sizes
3. diff throttle body 55 -> 60mm
4. diff oil pump (i believe) - was it one less tooth on the pully that you had to swap over..
5. 2 piece oil pan
6. diff cams (though all 3sgte cams can be interchanged as well as some with 3sge)
7. bigger injections, bigger fuel rail. gen3/4 rail doesn't swap with gen1/2
etc

The only real way to do a gen 3 swap into gen 2 is to swap the whole thing, not try and salvage bits and bobs as required.

You have issues bolting off a couple of engine brackets and and hooks? Sounds to me like a fail right there

You've totally misunderstood the point, I am talking about buying an engine (ST205) and fitting it into a SW20 Gen 2 (like the OP wanted), what would those things like cambelt, camshaft profiles and oil pan matter when doing a conversion, it comes with the engine.

If you undo those engine hooks (with w2a support) then you'll have no engine hooks on the engine! I'm trying to make it as "factory" looking as possible. not leaving big gaping holes everywhere.

Seems like these days anything I say on toyspeed ends up people thinking I'm "wrong". Am I getting dumber or kids getting smarter these days O_o

[Mr Revhead]

no, seems to me there's lots of missing of ppls points actually!

[mr30%jr]

yea because you are still wrong anyways....

if you were to buy a 205 gen3 engine... you would have to buy all the the associated gen3 3sgte sw20 turbo bits to match... so you might as well not bother all the water lines are $&#$% from a celica, the wiring, the mounts, intake, belt arangement alternator etc, any other additional piping the backing plates different...

just dont even bother unless your being a $&#$% hack. its as exactly the same as trying to shun a silvertop into an ae86 it just was never ment to be so you have to dick around

[DeeCee]

You've totally misunderstood the point, I am talking about buying an engine (ST205) and fitting it into a SW20 Gen 2 (like the OP wanted), what would those things like cambelt, camshaft profiles and oil pan matter when doing a conversion, it comes with the engine.

If you undo those engine hooks (with w2a support) then you'll have no engine hooks on the engine! I'm trying to make it as "factory" looking as possible. not leaving big gaping holes everywhere.

Seems like these days anything I say on toyspeed ends up people thinking I'm "wrong". Am I getting dumber or kids getting smarter these days O_o

You mentioned it initially and I was pointing out the differences that you casually glossed over without defining succinctly. You made it an issue when you talked about your issues with different parts and things that had to be addressed with swapping diff engines. I mentioned above with regards to mounts, etc and the reference to mr2oc.com which has bundles of reference material and gen2 / gen 3 swaps.

You say "oh this doesn't fit" and "that is different" then you do sound like a right pillock who hasn't done any research with regards to the swap. You dissuade rather than explain and you leave yourself open to criticism. Very easy to misconstrue what you say when you type the stuff that you do...

And you drop the engine in and then remove the hooks.. what is hard about that? And put them back on when you want to remove the engine again. Its not exactly hard to go to pick a part and grab a couple of different hooks off a block and then put on yours. You don't have to use what is there to begin with you know.

[iOnic]

Putting a celica engine in an MR2 adds other differences to the list as well. If I was doing it I'd find a Gen3 out of an MR2 and go from there. I've done the Gen2 celica into Gen2 MR2 and that was enough of a pain. I can't imagine going from Gen2 MR2 to Gen3 Celica