AE86 stronger Axles? modded Axles?

[ke25sr]

I have had my diff shortened and the axles shortened and re splined

When resplining they had to build up the axle because the spline steps up.

The weld had mad the splins soft and it broke ver clean and very straight, didnt even make a noise.

So what are my options?
i dont want to do the same thing again and get the same problem
Billett axles?
axles from another car that can be modded to work?

ideas please

[Burning Angel]

if they build them up with the right filler material, once its been resplined you can get them heat treated to bring it back to spec.

i imagine billett axles would be prohibitively expensive as you'd need to start with a blank the same size as the flange.

[ke25sr]

yeah i wish the engineer knew to do that.

billett axles would have been the very last option,

[iOnic]

Yep they should have been heat treated afterwards otherwise they're too brittle and just snap under force. Get it done again but have them heat treated this time? Billet = $$$$

[Adoom]

I have had my diff shortened and the axles shortened and re splined

When resplining they had to build up the axle because the spline steps up.

The weld had mad the splins soft and it broke ver clean and very straight, didnt even make a noise.

So what are my options?
i dont want to do the same thing again and get the same problem
Billett axles?
axles from another car that can be modded to work?

ideas please

I also had my T-series axles shortened. But the engineer said he couldn't because of that step.
I managed to find some that had a larger diameter spline, 2-3mm bigger(than the T-series) and no stepdown. They were also 5-10mm shorter that the original ones. Same number of splines too! So they just machined the tops off the existing splines to get the right diameter then re-cut them so the pitch was right. I've never had a problem with them.
But I don't remember exactly what car it was.
It was a early 80's Toyota Wagon(a big one), with leaf springs. It uses the same bearings as the T-series drum brake axle, so I didn't have to get weird ones. 114.3mm pcd. IT had those big size toyota drums on it.....

Hope that helps.

[ke25sr]

Did they also use the big bearing?

I wish i knew what they were from.

[AE25]

you could look into larger/longer axles. the bearing od is often larger so you'd have to remove and replace with T series bearing. the i.d. on the bearing is usually the same (35mm i think). for E and F axles anyway. the benefit of these is they're alot longer than the ke2 track ie from mid 90's vans. liteace noah van has one of the longest E series and estima the longest F series. (chunky!). these axles are so long that the step down in diameter is completely turned off. you wouldn't need to worry about length on an F series as they're thick enough on the spline to turn it down to size like adoom said. the longest T series live axle i know of is a tt141 corona. 1440mm total width iirc.
early T series 24mm
late T series 25m
E series 25mm
F series 28mm
G series 33?mm
you don't want to use an axle too much larger in size or you'll be machining the splines thru the existing case hardening. (induction hardened i believe). so g series probably wouldnt be good idea.

one downside of the drum axles is more machining required. ae86 disk type bearing is double row bearing (this is good) but bad because they're wider and drum brake axles don't have a wide enough bearing seat for the ae86 bearing and collar to fit onto. so to use a drum axle would require the bearing ID to be turned deeper towards the axle flange. the E and F axles are wider there anyway so you'll need to have it machined to get same width between the flange and bearing so the disk brakes all fit back on. then swap ae86 bearing and retainer plate. if you were using a drum brake T series housing it would make shortening easier.

Another downside is quite a few E and F series have 5stud axle. so some require welding up of stud holes and having it redrilled to 4x114. also many 5stud have the larger 67mm spigot. the 2wd liteace/townace cr30 etc with E series might be the go here as they're 4stud. E series have same diameter as late T series and near identical spline BUT the spline has a different profile so don't fit unfortunately.. so need super wide E series to suit shortening in a T housing.
maybe go borrow an E or F series and discuss what needs to be done with the machinist and get a price.. see if it's worth doing.

not sure how much you shortened it by.. but an option could be ma45 disk axles which are same as early ae86 axles (and te71 disk) but 8mm (ish) longer.

there's also the rt132/ra45/ma46 GT F series (disk) axle with same bearing as ae86 and will bolt into ae86 housing. get that shortened/resplined. good luck on finding one.
would be interesting to know which F series is short enough for a ke25 or kp60 that it doesn't need shortening.. just resplining!
maybe a factory lsd rt132/ra45GT F diff since factory lsd axles are a bit shorter.. these diffs are 1415mm total width.. (ae86 1400or 1410?) they could be used in an unshortened ae86 housing once resplined i'd assume.

some diff comparisons here
http://toycrazy.net/tech/diffcompare.html

[ke25sr]

Dam thats some sweet info.

So i reckon F series be the way to go.
I short my diff 30 mm each side

[AE25]

considering something similar so its still fresh on the mind.
I have an ma45 housing i plan to shorten for the ke26, using modified and resplined E or F series axles with ae86/te71/ma45 double row bearings. then a T302 head fitted with GT4 torsen lsd (different spline to ae86 axles). should be a nice cruisy ratio and hopefully not single spin anymore.
keep us updated with how you go

[NZ_AE86]

if they build them up with the right filler material, once its been resplined you can get them heat treated to bring it back to spec.

i imagine billett axles would be prohibitively expensive as you'd need to start with a blank the same size as the flange.

Just get new ones made, the flange is removed and the new axle is fitted to it, the 'blank' only needs to be the size of the axle itself!

[AE25]

who does this? and what approx costs?

[NZ_AE86]

In wellington I get them made by a machine shop called
http://yellow.co.nz/whitepages/Naenae/Howat-Industries-Limited/101238005_BUS.html

I have not got any made for a few years but spoke with him about making some 2 weeks ago, I was told $2-300 each, he also said it depends on the price of steel when he buys it. He heat treats them and uses your exsisting flanges. He makes axles for a lot of local sprint cars (high HP dirt oval type of thing).

I have had 6 made (3 sets) as we were breaking about 2-3 standard axles a year doing 5+ rallies and a lot of sprints/hillclimbs etc.
The first set lasted 2 years and the next set lasted a bit longer - nearly 3 years. The 3rd set are still going in another race car and have been in it for nearly 4 years! So this proves the strength is as good as factory.

The pain we have found is the cost of the AE86 bearing due to their size!

[Adoom]

In wellington I get them made by a machine shop called
http://yellow.co.nz/whitepages/Naenae/Howat-Industries-Limited/101238005_BUS.html

I have not got any made for a few years but spoke with him about making some 2 weeks ago, I was told $2-300 each, he also said it depends on the price of steel when he buys it. He heat treats them and uses your exsisting flanges. He makes axles for a lot of local sprint cars (high HP dirt oval type of thing).

This sounds not that much more than re-machining existing axles. I think 4? 5? years ago it cost me $180 per axle to get them re-machined.

[AE25]

i was quoted $180 and $200 each axle from steelie gears and diffs'r'us respectively for shortening and resplining about 6 months ago.

very curious how the flange is attached and held on?? got pics?

[Dell'Orto]

I think from memory its pressed on

[AE25]

there must surely be a keyway, square, hex or spline to stop the flange spinning on the shaft...
would you put your life on a 'pressed on' axle flange? i know the bearing retainer collet is pressed on but that has load only in an axial direction. it would only take a poorly fitted flange to allow a wheel and brake to come flying off your car

[Dell'Orto]

All I can remember is reading an article somewhere about doing it, and it was just an uber tight interference fit. Heat up the flange, freeze the axle kinda deal. Cant remember if it was welded after that or what the deal was.

[Adoom]

It might be friction welded..... I don't think a friction welder is something normal engineers will have....

[NZ_AE86]

i was quoted $180 and $200 each axle from steelie gears and diffs'r'us respectively for shortening and resplining about 6 months ago.

very curious how the flange is attached and held on?? got pics?

As far as I know at the factory they are attached just like a ring gear - heated then fitted. When Brian (axle maker!) fits them to the new axles he puts a small weld on the outside. He can also make new flanges if yours are damaged, you can't supply some or if you want to change stud pattern or something.

Oh and if you do use him can you let him know how you got on to him.

[ke25sr]

i was quoted $180 and $200 each axle from steelie gears and diffs'r'us respectively for shortening and resplining about 6 months ago.

very curious how the flange is attached and held on?? got pics?

As far as I know at the factory they are attached just like a ring gear - heated then fitted. When Brian (axle maker!) fits them to the new axles he puts a small weld on the outside. He can also make new flanges if yours are damaged, you can't supply some or if you want to change stud pattern or something.

Oh and if you do use him can you let him know how you got on to him.

i reckon thats the way i will prob go, thanks