Tearing whats left of my hair out: 3sgte Gen3 Swap no start

[solitaire]

Hi All,

2 years on I am at the "start yer bastard" phase of my engine swap (gen 3 3sgte into a gen1 sw20).

Symptoms:

Engine cranks fine for as long as I like but will not start. Boost pressure on cluster says max boost when turned off (possibly red hering, have not sorted out all the wiring to the front of the car yet). Engine diagnostics say error code 24: air temp sensor (because it is sitting here on my desk)

Things I have checked:

Getting spark at the end of the leads
Dizzy rotor can only go on one way
Fuel is close to 2 years old
Fuel pump is working
Injectors are receiving 12v
Tried cranking it with the throttle open

I have gotten to the "check for vacume leaks then check air filter" part of the byb, I have also had a search on here and mr2oc.com and not turned anything up that looked like a clue.

Does anything jump out at anyone? I will replace fuel tomorrow but do you think i need to drain the fuel first? Any recomendations on that proceedure?

Thanks peoples - hoping for a christmas miracle!!!

[Heylin]

when you put the fuel rail back on did you ensure the banjo\union bolt was facing the right direction for flow ? if not it will restrict or cut off the supply to rail.

[QikStarlie]

put some new gas in it to start with. if still no go, sounds like a timing problem if it has spark and fuel. make sure all the timing marks line up to there correct locations etc..

[strx7]

the injectors shouldn't be getting 12V, they should be getting 5.

[fivebob]

the injectors shouldn't be getting 12V, they should be getting 5.

Nope, they get 12v, (or slightly less because of the resistor block) direct from the igntion circuit EFI relay.

Contrary to common beleif the injectors are earthed through the ECU the ECU does not supply a +ve signal to them.

[strx7]

true, having a christmas brain fart, tps, etc get the 5v feed

[Lloyd]

Does it actually fire?

And are you getting fuel in the engine? Fuel pump going and injectors getting power doesn't mean you're getting fuel in the rail or that the injectors are firing. If you have fuel in the engine (plugs getting wet) and you have a strong spark (not just sign of a small spark) then its more than likely a timing issue

[solitaire]

Thanks for all the quick replies everyone

Does it actually fire?

Sorry, no - not at all, sounds exactly as if the dizzy was un plugged.

Are you getting fuel in the engine?If you have fuel in the engine (plugs getting wet) and you have a strong spark (not just sign of a small spark) then its more than likely a timing issue

I honestly have no idea... whats the best way to check that? The bgb mentions taking out the injectors but thats like a huge job so would like to rule out the other alternatives first if possible.

when you put the fuel rail back on did you ensure the banjo\union bolt was facing the right direction for flow ? if not it will restrict or cut off the supply to rail.

The fuel rail did not come off, i reckonnected the fuel at the fuel filter, completely intact and original downstream from there - sorry should have mentioned that

put some new gas in it to start with. if still no go, sounds like a timing problem if it has spark and fuel.

Will do that tomorrow, although engine is completely unchanged since it was running in its original vehicle, so unless i have knocked something I'm hoping the timing is all good

[matt dunn]

Are you getting fuel in the engine?If you have fuel in the engine (plugs getting wet) and you have a strong spark (not just sign of a small spark) then its more than likely a timing issue

I honestly have no idea... whats the best way to check that? The bgb mentions taking out the injectors but thats like a huge job so would like to rule out the other alternatives first if possible.

Easiest way to tell if it is not getting fuel is to spray some engine start in a can into the intake manifold and then try to start it and see if it kicks.

Usually just pull a vacuum hose off, one that goes to the map sensor etc,
and spray it down in there as the intake tract will be too long to ensure it gets in there.

[fivebob]

Did you change the ignitor to the Gen III one?

[iOnic]

I honestly have no idea... whats the best way to check that? The bgb mentions taking out the injectors but thats like a huge job so would like to rule out the other alternatives first if possible.

Pull the plugs out and check if they're wet/smell of petrol.

How come you aren't putting in the intake air temp sensor?

[solitaire]

Pull the plugs out and check if they're wet/smell of petrol.

How come you aren't putting in the intake air temp sensor?

Ok Will Do,

Just have not gotten around to putting the sensor on yet... I just want to make sure the thing fires before i throw everything back into the engine bay etc

[Akane]

You don't need the MAT to start but it'll throw a CEL

Remember I told you that time my PowerFC was going crazy and I was all upset and stuff, well one of the symptoms is the factory boost gauge will read full boost when I have the key on the "ON" position, and fuel pump will be perma on when the key is at the "ON" position.

It turned out to be the earthing wires (about 5 wires, crimped to a square shaped ring), that is not earthed. It's an earth for a bunch of relays and stuff. It's really easy to miss. It's suppose to be long enough to bolt next to the T-VSV under the intake manifold.

once you have comfirmed that is all nicely earthed, you can check if the fuel pump is working by jumping FP and B in the diagnostic box. What this does is bypassing the fuel pump relay and CO relay, and just make the damn fuel pump keep pumping as soon as you flick your key to "ON", this will eliminate some possible fuel problems. You can also undo the banjo bolt to the fuel rail, stick it in a coke bottle, jump B and FP and flick the key to on, see if fuel squirts out into a coke bottle.

Keep us updated

[matt dunn]

It turned out to be the earthing wires (about 5 wires, crimped to a square shaped ring), that is not earthed. It's an earth for a bunch of relays and stuff. It's really easy to miss. It's suppose to be long enough to bolt next to the T-VSV under the intake manifold.

Pretty much all toyota EFI stuff, including diesil EFI, all have the ecu earths bolted to the inlet manifold somwhere from factory.
Usually a group of brown wires crimped into a thimble.

[solitaire]

Was indeed the 25 litres of 2 year old fuel i had in the tank... drained it all and put in some new 98 and away it went.

Only issue is that the pump does not run unless i bridge f & b+ on the diagnostic interface... probably just a wire i missed i guess...

Once i bridged the diag it idled fine, although needed the beans the start and then idled between 2000 & 2500 every .5 seconds

[85AW20v]

Only issue is that the pump does not run unless i bridge f & b+ on the diagnostic interface... probably just a wire i missed i guess...

Probably the earth wire off the AFM. Had the same problem when swapping the 20v into the AW.

[Dell'Orto]

Gen 3 3SGTE = no AFM. But no doubt, there will be a minor looking wire you've missed some place