Experiences with a Warped Manifold

[BZG Wagon]

My caldina gtt first made the 'leaking' screeching sound back in February 2008 - roughly 19 months / 30,000kms ago.

After starting the car presumably the manifold would heat and the gap close after 30 seconds or so, and the car would be fine to drive. Only after a long trip to Taupo / Tamaranui and back to Auckland last weekend has it become noticeably worse (i.e. now the leaking / squealing sound isn't restricted just to start up).

I have spoken to an engineering firm who seem to have experience in repairing this common fault; their suggestion is to have an extra lug welded to the manifold and it machined true. They also suggest I remove the manifold myself, as it is a straight forward job albeit time consuming & not worth paying someone $100 p/h to complete.

I personally know two people who have had the fault; both had it machined back (no lug welded), both had it fail again within a few months and both flicked their cars shortly after the second repair rather than risking it happening again - a real shame IMO.

I guess it will be inevitable I repair my caldina in the next few months - so I'll try to keep this updated with my progress.

For now the only questions I have are:
1) Who's had a 'permanent' fix to this issue? Does clamping or did an extra lug welded onto the manifold work? How long has it been since repaired?
2) Anyone undertaken this job themselves? How hard was it / what issues did you encounter? I hear getting snapped bolts / studs out is a mish - did anyone helicoil a new thread in? An aircraft engineer contact suggested easy-outs are the worst method for removing these.

There was a good thread by Snowtoy on his aftermarket manifold + turbo installation which I can no longer find. Also can't seem to find a video I posted of my leak, so I will link it again for reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iixjEc0E7A

[Miss_S]

Don't Toyota sell a kit to fix properly? My Dino has the dirty tractor rattle too, and that's what I'm told, as it's such a freakin common problem... Um I think it's Stu at Repco Onehunga that's looking into it for me.

[Mr Revhead]

yeah they do, it's called a new turbo.

getting an extra lug added and having it machined flat again would work.
The new turbo for them has the extra lug

its a matte rof when, not if they will do it. btw the facelift turbo has the extra lug

[fivebob]

I hear getting snapped bolts / studs out is a mish

Then try not to snap them in the first place

Use a good penetrating oil like Mouse Milk or Kroil a few hours before you begin dissassembly and you shouldn't have any problems.

However if they're already snapped then removal method depends on how much of the stud is left. If there's enough of the stud left, and you only need a 1-2mm protruding from the head, then weld a nut on it, apply penetrating oil and it should come out fairly easily. If it's snapped off flush or inside the head then it's probably a job best left for the experts

did anyone helicoil a new thread in?

Not needed unless you strip the thread.

An aircraft engineer contact suggested easy-outs are the worst method for removing these.

Easyouts a a PITA, are liable to snap off and don't really work that well when the stud is siezed in the head.

[fivebob]

the facelift turbo has the extra lug

Pity they don't just sell the manifold

I wonder if there's a market for exchange reconditioned manifolds with an extra lug welded on

[GT4WRC]

yeah they do, it's called a new turbo.

getting an extra lug added and having it machined flat again would work.
The new turbo for them has the extra lug

its a matte rof when, not if they will do it. btw the facelift turbo has the extra lug

Facelift? I thought it was the new caldina GT-Four ST246 that has the extra lug!

[Mr Revhead]

that has it too, but iirc the later 215's got it as well.

[YeMs]

good times to pull them off. did 1 recently and sum boogy back-yarder had snapped the stud closest to the front of the engine (cambelt end), tried to drill it out, gone off centre, drilled down through the head (didnt disturb the HG but still dodgy as hell), then decided to tap an 8mm thread in (on the angle it was), throw it back together with a couple of washers and give every 1 the thumbs up.

I got the job (after trying to bargain a deal out the the owner to buy it for cheap and fix it myself hehe, turns out he thinks the car is worth 10g going.. i said good luck lol) of removing the head, removing the broken half drilled mangeled stud, tig'ing the hole up, re-drilling and tapping the hole to suit the factoy 10mm stud and re-assembling the whole thing. they arent too hard to get off. just gotta know about the 10000000 turbo/manifold brakets on the under side with siezed bolts etc. never under-estimate and job involving exhaust components.. do that and murphys law will f*ck you in the arse and every bolt will snap.

[BZG Wagon]

Time for an update:

* Sussed out a mate who's a mechanic (well, auto-sparky) to help get the manifold off & back on.
* Lined up a place to weld an extra lug on, and plane it flat.
* Got two engineers on call to help get a manifold bolt out should it be stuck inside the head and cause a bit of trouble.

A few more questions:
1) Do I need to replace the manifold gasket? I hear it's made out of steel and a replacement is around $100.
2) Do I need to use sealant around the manifold?
3) Should I replace all the manifold bolts, or just the broken one(s). I was told by Toyota they tend to weaken & snap due to the weight of the turbo on one side.
4) How much do I need to torque the manifold bolts & do I need to I need to do them up in any sequence?

Road tirp in two weeks - so it's going to get sorted before then.

Fivebob - thanks for the penetration oil tip. I hadn't even heard of that stuff before you mentioned it.

[evil_si]

replace the gasket,
dont use silicon or sealant
replace all the studs / bolts

[fivebob]

3) Should I replace all the manifold bolts, or just the broken one(s). I was told by Toyota they tend to weaken & snap due to the weight of the turbo on one side.

Take a note of the person that told you that and never listen to them again

[BZG Wagon]

3) Should I replace all the manifold bolts, or just the broken one(s). I was told by Toyota they tend to weaken & snap due to the weight of the turbo on one side.

Take a note of the person that told you that and never listen to them again

http://www.albany-toyota.co.nz/

Albany Toyota Fails:
1) GTT was 'pinking'. Car road tested and supposedly connected to scan tool. Told all GTTs in NZ do it due to NZ petrol. Diagnosed myself by bridging the OBD-II connector; air intake fault engine code due to a broken wire on the air intake sensor.
http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=61861&highlight=

2) Speedo would intermittently stop. Supposedly connected to scan tool. Diagnosed myself by bridging the OBD-II connector; speed sensor fault due to the instrument cluster chip coming off.
http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=64497&highlight=

3) Went to pick up my car after having the cambelt done (taking the bus from town / work). A mechanic had gone home (in Orewa) with my keys in his pocket.

4) My mate collected his GT4, pulled out the driveway & car reved until it hit the boost cut. Wastegate not re-connected.

5) Mates Celica GT4 backed into a engine on the forecourt. Bumper required panelbeating & repaint.

At least I've a few free warrants as a gesture of good will. I've got to find a new mechanic - fivebob when are you moving to Auckland

...[/rant]

[BZG Wagon]

replace the gasket,
dont use silicon or sealant
replace all the studs / bolts

Sweet - thanks for the heads up.

I'll call the local toyota dealership and order the parts tomorrow.

[Bling]

Or you could contact our Toyota sponsor?

Sponsors section

[sergei]

replace the gasket,
dont use silicon or sealant
replace all the studs / bolts

Sweet - thanks for the heads up.

I'll call the local toyota dealership and order the parts tomorrow.

IF you are talking about albany toyota, after the list you described, the only way I would be contacting them is with that list of fails sent to head office as a complaint, and the reason why they lost business.

Also if you talk to their parts department they will rip you off.

Talk to Mark from sponsor section.

[cat007]

Hey man

I'm also about to do this to my partners car.

Maybe a group buy (of two hehe) is in order?

How many studs/bolts nuts would one need?

What about the gasket between exhaust housing and down pipe?

[Miss_S]

Stu from Repco in Onehunga is ordering studs/gasket for me this week. Mebbe see if he will add extra for order?

[BZG Wagon]

IF you are talking about albany toyota, after the list you described, the only way I would be contacting them is with that list of fails sent to head office as a complaint, and the reason why they lost business.

Also if you talk to their parts department they will rip you off.

Talk to Mark from sponsor section.

I had a decent blow up at their service manager & he genuinely tried to put things right. My family's bought 4 cars from that dealership over the years (since back when it was owned by Paul Adams) & they looked after me when I was a student; but I'm not sure I trust their service team these days.

The guys at Henderson Toytoa aren't too bad with thier pricing.

I'm also about to do this to my partners car.

Maybe a group buy (of two hehe) is in order?

LOL - I'd be keen but not sure I have time to order another one (Tuesday is the big day). Toyota quoted me $55 + gst which seems reasonable.

How many studs/bolts nuts would one need?

By the looks of things 7 - which includes one for the extra lug to be welded (I understand there is an extra hole on the engine head for it to go). Toyota quoted me $4.65 + gst ea which was a little more than I expected.

What about the gasket between exhaust housing and down pipe?

Say what?!? I should probably know this - can anyone clarify what this is and if it's needed?

[cat007]

might want to change those quotes

[BZG Wagon]

Progress update:

The manifold came off in roughly two hours, and it currently away being welded & machined flat again.

Question: I notice my valve stems are very white (& the turbine on the turbo) - is this read like a spark-plug; too lean? Is it anything to be concerned about or just due to high tempretures?

You can see from where it's been leaking & where the infamous 'extra lug' should go:


Turbo:


I ended up paying a someone to do it - he has a fair bit of experience doing this sort of stuff, & for the sake of a few hundred dollars (not to mention horror stories abour studs breaking - which could well end up costing the same) I was convinced out of attempting it.