99Caldina GTT - miss in engine, car stalls

[mistyq]

Hi Guys
Am new to this forum and hoping to pick your brains! We have a 99 Toyota Caldina GTT, with a Gen IV ST215 3STGE engine in it. It has an HKS intake & bov.

It has an intermittent fault that comes and goes - a miss in the engine that can be picked up when running (quite noticeably sometimes) and also sometimes when idling. It has completely stalled at times when running as well. I have checked the other posts but no suggestions have helped as yet.

We have pulled the codes from it 14 & 15 which we have found out meant ignition coil amplifier 1 & 2, so we cleared the ecu in case they were from previous faults and waited for them to come back. We have also changed the spark plugs, checked the gasket as there was oil down the plugs and made sure the coils were in properly.

The fault still exists but no fault codes present in ecu, even though the check engine light comes up when driving.

We have noticed that sometimes this gets worse if there is under a quarter of a tank of gas or after driving hard at full boost - but can't figure out why this should effect it, plus it only does it sometimes.

Oh, and we went to an auto electrician who couldn't pull anything with his scan tool, and then to Toyota who also couldn't pull anything...from research this is because it doesn't have a proper OBTII connection???

Thoughts? Help please!

[headshotnz]

incorrect timing, cambelt a tooth over, perhaps?

[mistyq]

If that were the case though wouldn't it be doing it all the time not just intermittently?

For example, we drove it yesterday, did a 100km trip and it was right as rain, no probs. We have also disconnected the boost gauge (we are trying everything!) but no idea if fault will come back.

At this point we are looking at replacing the coil packs and/or ecu but this is getting quite costly and would rather figure out what the fault is first rather than just replacing random parts lol.

[mistyq]

To update: Have taken on another 100km drive and its going fine....for now.

Spoke to (yet) another auto sparky, suggestions now are fuel system (pump/filter, possibly caused by poor maintenance), power relays, a bad earth or even the immobiliser on the alarm.

So we are pretty much trying everything...feel free to add your thoughts, we will try those too!

[fivebob]

We have pulled the codes from it 14 & 15 which we have found out meant ignition coil amplifier 1 & 2,

Actually it's possible that it's failing on all cylinders according to those codes. Code 14 is cylinders 1&4 and code 15 is cylinders 2&3. See this thread for how to further diagnose these sort of faults.

The fault still exists but no fault codes present in ecu, even though the check engine light comes up when driving.

There are no fault codes that light the "Check Engine Light" that are not stored in the ECU memory with the exception of "ECT CPU malfunction". Unless you have an auto and there is a fault in the part ECT part of the ECU (they're all part of the same box) this behaviour makes no sense, and I can't think how an ECT fault would cause the engine to miss

Spoke to (yet) another auto sparky, suggestions now are fuel system (pump/filter, possibly caused by poor maintenance),

Extremely unlikely to cause the symptoms you mention especially a miss at idle, and it certainly wouldn't cause the CEL to come up.

power relays, a bad earth or even the immobiliser on the alarm.

Power relays unlikely, bad earth is a definite possiblity, as is the immobliser.

[mistyq]

The strange thing is, since the auto sparky cleared ecu these faults haven't come back. I created a fault (14- pulled the plug of the coil and started it, just to make sure ecu was logging faults)...can I reset the ecu myself? Is it just a battery disconnect for 20-30 sec's?

The car is a 5 speed manual. Have put in another earth (just in case!) and also put a earth to the body of the ecu but there is nothing else I can really check until the fault comes back again is there?

[mistyq]

To update on where we are at...we have replaced all spark plugs and 2 of the coil plugs. The other 2 are on order (retail of $650 each!!!).

The car is still playing up, drove along tonight, car started missing and the check engine light would sometimes flash up - but no fault code logged.

No one so far has been able to provide any information that helps, no scan tool will read it (even while the fault is occurring).

Will keep you posted as we work through this, feel free to offer suggestions.

[Snaps]

Does the engine use any sort of Idle air control valve (a small thing that looks like a TPS from the outside, after the throttle butterfly)? I had this same problem on my supra (although no CEL), and the IACV just needed a really good clean. After that I reset the ECU and it hasn't happened again yet. I may be way off lol, but it's worth an ask.

[sergei]

Does the engine use any sort of Idle air control valve (a small thing that looks like a TPS from the outside, after the throttle butterfly)? I had this same problem on my supra (although no CEL), and the IACV just needed a really good clean. After that I reset the ECU and it hasn't happened again yet. I may be way off lol, but it's worth an ask.

Well the ICSV on the Caldina is a lot simpler and would not cause symptoms above.

[mistyq]

Ok, well here's a new thing. We thought perhaps it was when the coils heated up...however, this morning I got in car, backed down driveway and put it in first..and it started missing straight away.

What can it be that it would do it when cold?

[mistyq]

And now the car won't even start! It turns over so the battery is fine, but won't fire.

It has 4 new spark plugs and 2 new coil packs (the other 2 are still on the boat)....what could cause it not to start?

[sergei]

Please don't hit me:) I am just guessing here:
one could think that the crank position sensor is at fault here.
Reasoning being: it could cause "missing" symptom (if say ring floats), also eventually (if ring came off) it would cause no starting.

[mistyq]

All guesses welcome!!! I won't hit you, but I am starting to dream about driving the car over a cliff....if it will make it that far!!!

The funny thing is...the car only plays up really bad like this when my other half drives it, maybe its cos I'm a girl and I drive it nicely lol.

I will get him to check out the crank sensor...any other thoughts? He is going to rip alarm and immobiliser out tomorrow, will have to put new one in...just in case thats causing it.

[mistyq]

Right.... Now it played up like a bag a f..ken sh.t today, but i drove it around and around and around missing, coughing and backfiring, with check engine light coming on, i shorted wires out off and on as i drove waiting for a fault to show and i managed to get a fault logged (12) "crank pos sensor" so i know where to start looking now, i just have the mission of working out how to get to it easily. i found wire and the sensor but i think i have to pull fan belt pulley off and cambelt cover off so i can check that cogs on the plate that spins not damaged, he is a link of what it looks like plus some points on why gen 4 is diff to gen 3 3sgte. http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?=&p=166076

[fivebob]

Right.... Now it played up like a bag a f..ken sh.t today, but i drove it around and around and around missing, coughing and backfiring, with check engine light coming on, i shorted wires out off and on as i drove waiting for a fault to show and i managed to get a fault logged (12) "crank pos sensor" so i know where to start looking now,

If you start looking at the crank position sensor you'll be looking in the wrong place... Code 12 is the cam position sensor

[fivebob]

he is a link of what it looks like plus some points on why gen 4 is diff to gen 3 3sgte. http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?=&p=166076

Don't believe what you read in that thread, a lot of it is incorrect

[mistyq]

Really??!! i read what a fault 12 is on the net at this address http://bitcrusher.org/3S-GE_Codes_List.pdf crank pos sensor 1 and somewhere else i forget where told me number one is crank sensor, maybe in that thread i posted earlya, i just figured they may have damaged it when they did cambelt 20000 km ago and it been playing up the whole time from then. but where is your thread for fault codes or do you have a book or something? there so much diff info out there had to know what s true and what is false. So where do you think i should go from here replace the cam pos sensor?

[fivebob]

Really??!! i read what a fault 12 is on the net at this address http://bitcrusher.org/3S-GE_Codes_List.pdf crank pos sensor 1 and somewhere else i forget where told me number one is crank sensor,

But it doesn't say crank pos sensor 1, it says Crank Pos Sensor No.1 i.e. position sensor for cylinder #1 TDC aka Cam position sensor

but where is your thread for fault codes or do you have a book or something?

I have a workshop manual (in Russian) and some fault diagnosis info from other sources

there so much diff info out there had to know what s true and what is false.

That's mainly because people post what the think rather than what they know. Which is ok if explain that, but often they try and sound as though they know for certain. Also people get confused by terminology and interperet things differently.

So where do you think i should go from here replace the cam pos sensor?

No, because I don't think that's your problem. As I said before all codes that illuminate the CEL should be stored in memory, if it's not storing the code then chances are the ECU is faulty, has a bad earth, or your immobiliser is causing problems.

[mistyq]

The fault is stored in the memory of the ecu now, its like it notice's the fault and throws it to one side before logging it, like a pending code and i get home or turn car off before it has time to work out if its a true fault or fault goes away while driving, does the ecu work in this way hold a pending code till it knows for sure that it is faulty item?

[fivebob]

AFAIK it stores the fault in memory when it occurs, there's nothing in any of the documentation that I have to suggest otherwise.

If code 12 is in memory now, then does it re-occur if you clear the codes (disconnect the battery,unplug the ECU or remove the EFI fuse for 30secs), and run the engine again?

Also what is the resistance of the cam sensor (G2+-> Earth)?

Do you have access to an oscilloscope?