AE111 Levin 20V BT Starting Problem

[nzhogrider]

Hi, I had the suspension changed on my car last week and when I picked it up from the shop it started fine and I drove it home. Next day it wouldn't start, so I thought the the guy who owned the shop had run my battery down listening to my stereo all day while doing the job. I set up the jumper leads and attempted to jump it off the wifes car, same problem. Turn key and I can hear a solenoid click but no starter engagement. doesn't change wheather it's got jumper cables on or not, so doesn't seem to be a power supply issue to the starter.
I know that having the struts changed on all four corners shouldn't affect the starting of the car in any way normally, so I thought it must be a bung starter or solenoid. No dramas here, I had another one in my shed, so I swapped it over and thought I'd be all sorted. No such luck, changed the starter, wired it up and before I refitted bits n pieces like strut brace, air intake plenum, and air filter pipe etc. I thought I'd check to see that it was cranking the engine. Same problem, turn key, starter solenoid click, but nothing else.
Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone have any ideas what it could be?
I know it's a long shot, but is it just coincidence that this problem started as soon as I got it home from the suspension shop? Or is it possible that the guy has disrupted something that is causing the problem? I don't really want to go accusing him of causing anything until I know for sure, cause he's done a superb job on my suspension.
Any help would be greatly apreciated, thanks, Sean.

[ChaosAD]

leave the jumpers on for 15min with the other car running to charge the battery up a bit. or throw it on a charger

[gurutasker]

I've diagnosed a similar problem on a silver top recently.

Check all 3 contact points on the starter motor for a voltage drop when you are starting. Don't make the mistake of just testing the contact from the wire to a solid earth, as I only found the voltage drop when it was under load and connected.

What you could be hearing is a click for the solenoid engaging, but not engaging far enough to bridge the magnetic switch between the solenoid and the motor.

The other possibility is you are not getting enough power directly from the battery to the starter, and it hasn't got enough grunt to turn it over.

In my case it turned out to be a bad earth that was causing the issue, but on the starting circuit, not the direct line from the battery.

[sergei]

How fat are the jumper leads?
What voltage do you read when it clicks?
Sounds like you have a dud battery.

[Boosted_162]

leave the jumpers on for 15min with the other car running to charge the battery up a bit. or throw it on a charger

Yep, try this. My RCs battery is pretty stuffed, and with the jumperleads on it barely turned over, but after leaving it running it eventually got going.

[dusk93]

alternator charge (when car is running) isnt really enough to recharge a mega flat battery. Best bet is if you have access to a charger leave it on deep cycle charge overnight then try again in the morning

[85AW20v]

Or swap the battery from the other car into yours and see what happens. Had the same sort of thing in my AW. Rebuilt the starter, rewired it as well. Turned out to be the battery even thought it would start once or twice but never when hot.

[B1NZ]

Start with the basics, check that battery terminals and earth straps etc are tight, then try battery swap.

[nzhogrider]

Well I had a chance in between showers yesterday to try and diagnose fault while car was still in bits. I had the replacement starter fitted still and tried swapping the starter relay out for the one on my parts chassis, no change. Tried a jumper lead from the battery positive terminal to the power input terminal on the starter/solenoid (cause when i did this with the key in the ign position with my Subaru it would crank) however it did nothing on the levin. Scratching my head as to where to go next to begin diagnosing a voltage leak between the ign barrel and the starter I decided to try the key again, and it cranked fine. Me thinking it was probably just a fluke that it worked just this time, tried it another half dozen times, still cranking just fine. Bear in mind the only thing I have done here is connect a jumper lead across the battery positive terminal and the starter with the key in the ign position. Thought I may as well just put it back together and see how it goes. All reassembled and now cranks and starts fine.
Battery is an Optima red top which is well serviced and has regular charges both boost and trickle, and car is used for no less than 20 km trips twice daily so is not too hard on battery as it gets good charging time. I don't suspect battery is the issue here. Remember I have changed nothing and is all working fine here now.
Can anyone explain what has happened here? Have I somehow inadvertantly done the equivalent of a backflush or a line purge in electrical terms to have it all working again?
Electrical faults (gremlins) aren't my forte and as such I passionately loathe them and will avoid them at any cost, so any explainatione here would help.

[sergei]

Sounds like solenoid plunger is not operating properly.
The plunger is very simple device - it has copper ring that should bridge two contacts, it is behind the solenoid cover (two bolts) and in manytimes the grease dries out and contact are covered in oxides and in worst case uneven wear.

Not too difficult to rectify this problem - you can see what is wrong, the plunger should easily (there is spring behind it) go in (if not clean the rod and plunger off old grease and grease it lightly with fresh grease). While the contact area must be flat and oxide free (brush it off with metal brush, if there are low sides on the disk replace the plunger).

[Mr Revhead]

Prob need the contacts replaced as well then, take the bits into an autosparky and they should be able to match up replaements.

[gepsk8]

i didn't think Blacktops run gear reduction starter, to start with?
also hes changed it?
i believe battery may have been flat? how old is it? or battery terminals or earth is loose

[ChaosAD]

AE111's dont suffer from the volt drop to the starter accross the ign switch like the early toyota's. They have a starter relay from factory.

[nzhogrider]

Nope, battery is fine, always has been, and yes, it has a factory starter relay. All I can say to explain what has happened is that I saw no change following the starter replacement, probably due to not testing the replacement starter prior to fitment, so when it failed to crank initially, I thought that the issue must be to do with some of the wiring. The replacement starter did crank after I had jumped a lead to it whilst fitted, directly from the battery, so maybe it was just a bit crusty after sitting around for a few years with no use, it's all still working fine now. I imagine if I pulled the original starter/solenoid apart I would find somthing similar to what other members described above regarding the solenoid plunger/contacts etc being faulty.
Thanks all for the help, fingers crossed it keeps working as it is now.

[.:O4AGTZ:.]

when you are trying to jump it are you picking the negative on the battery terminal or where it grounds to?

EDIT: Oops just saw you fixed it lol

[nzhogrider]

***UPDATE***

Starting intermittantly fails, about once every 5 - 7 days or so. Manage to crash start it to get where I'm going then it appears to be OK again untill next time.
When I tried starting it the first time with the jumper leads from my wifes car I just jumped it positive to positive and negative to negative on both sets of battery terminal posts and the wifes car was running at the time.

Scratching head still...any more ideas???

[gepsk8]

does ur starter look this this ?
http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture9 ... otor-l.jpg

or this
http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture9 ... otor-l.jpg

[nzhogrider]

gepsk8 - my starter is the one in the second image you put the link up for. Why is that?

[gepsk8]

cause if one those starters is i thought, all stuff people saying bout contacts you can change them, only change hole solenoid sound like need get battery test at auto sparky shop on load tester to me.