4AGE vs 1ZZFE?

[molex]

I've been thinking about potential engine swaps for an AE92 Levin when the current bigport gets tired. Getting a decent 16v 4age to drop in is getting more and more difficult and for a primarily road car I don't really want the hassle of a rebuild

After a bit of research I've been considering the 1ZZFE.. At first glance I thought 'ew, FE' but after doing some reading I've discovered a few interesting things...

Power: 140hp at 6400rpm compared to 140 @ 7200, 160 @ 7400 or 165 @ 7800 for smallport/silvertop/blacktop respectively. They're built for usable torque and economy - things that are quite desirable in a street car, assuming it still puts out enough peak power to be entertaining

Weight and size: 18-22kg lighter than a 16v 4AGE, that's a fairly considerable difference over the front axle. It's also 30mm shorter in length, and not as deep. Advantageous to putting it in something where it was never intended to go.

Easy to swap: They use C series gearboxes, with fairly minimal work (in the scheme of things) 3 of the 4 engine mounts should bolt straight in to an AE92/AE101/AE111 chassis. The remaining mount is apparently not far off either.

Easy to source: These things are in a LOT of toyotas made in the last 10 years, I don't imagine it's going to be all that hard to find a low K's example with gearbox and everything else required from a wrecker for hopefully less than moonbeams. I've yet to look into price but hopefully it's cheaper than a properly rebuilt 4age.

Does anybody have any experience/opinions on the 1zzfe? or possibly an alternative that I haven't considered?

[Nuty|Mike]

why not consider a 2zzge if your going to the effort of a 1zz ?

[molex]

Very considerable amounts of money. 2zz is physically larger, apparently quite tall and sump clearance becomes an issue. I spent a lot of time looking into it, but it just didn't seem feasible - primarily due to the expense.

You would possibly know more about what they're actually going for at the moment, Aussie prices a while back were ~$700 for the 1zz and ~$3k for the 2zz

[Lloyd]

As above... Its like doing an engine swap to put a 3A-U into something when you have a 4A-GE sitting there

[thegreatestben]

1zz is really not an exciting engine

1zz = modern 4afe
2zz = modern 4age

[Nuty|Mike]

You would possibly know more about what they're actually going for at the moment, Aussie prices a while back were ~$700 for the 1zz and ~$3k for the 2zz

look up woodsport 2zz aw11 on youtube and maybe see if he has a build thred somewhere ?

last one i priced when i had my MR-S was Around the 2k mark but i did find one with no ecu and cut loom for $900 gutted i didnt buy it now but sold that car so
Altho I have just purchaced a car with a 2zz-ge already in man it hauls !!

[KinLoud]

I have done a bit of thinking on this topic... the results of my one spare braincell boiling away for several hours are:

Pro
- lighter
- more fuel efficient
- novelty
- a reasonable supply due millions of corollas
- uses same clutch/pressure plate as 4age (212mm)
- uses c series gearbox so possible lsd and gear ratio swaps

Con
- limited scope for improved performance (this may not worry you)
- exhaust exits rear of head so may conflict with steering rack, firewall etc.
- heatshielding needed for exhaust
- purchase cost

I have a reasonably complete 1zz (missing exhaust manifold) with manual loom. I think it has siezed due to surface rust in bore due to moisture/humidity from sitting around before I got it.
You're welcome to come look at it/make an offer.
I might know where a manual computer is too.

Ken
021 408 863

[Mr Revhead]

I don't really want the hassle of a rebuild

yet a rebuild would be:

1: cheaper
2: easier
3: faster (as in completion time)



Nothing wrong with sticking a 1zz into a daily driver.... It just seems weird to go the hassle when you cbf with a rebuild.

[molex]

I totally understand what you're saying. If I intended this thing to go fast I wouldn't consider it at all but it's intended to be a daily driver.. priorities are a little different

Considering it's got 20hp more than the 16v 4age it's replacing (assuming their power measurement back then was spot on, which it wasn't) but substantially more torque for more of the rev range (which is shorter I'll give you) on paper it looks like it would make for a pretty good repower option

Anybody actually have one of these things? I have only driven their successor, the 2ZR-FE in rental cars. Had one for a couple of weeks last month in manual form and did ~1000km's in it, was fairly underwhelming (especially with super intrusive traction control) but that was in a 1300kg car vs ~1000kg for a levin.

I don't really want the hassle of a rebuild

yet a rebuild would be:

1: cheaper
2: easier
3: faster (as in completion time)

You're not wrong, I should rephrase - a refreshed bigport doesn't really appeal, I'd want to improve on it in some noticeable way, I think I'd have to part with a fairly decent chunk of change to get the same real world results from just going to a more modern engine? I'm far from an expert in the field of 4AGE's and I know there are some clued up guys on these boards, I'd love to know if I'm wrong

[sergei]

I have driven whole load of 1ZZFE and 2ZZGE powered vehicles.
1ZZFE is a very dull engine. It runs out of breath at high RPM and is a very boring to drive (unless it powers something really tiny and light like MRS but that would be much more fun with 2ZZGE anyway).
2ZZGE (the ones that do not have lift bolt issue) are very fun motors. The feel is very similar to honda VTEC engines.

[Adamal]

AND when you bolt on a Blitz supercharger kit, the 2ZZ becomes even MORE fun

[AE92-5ONIC]

wouldn't the easiest solution be a smallport 4AGE?

-Not too expensive
-Greater power
-No hassle getting it in
-More appealing?

Just pulled my smallport out yesterday, sending it in for a recon, porting, skim, angled valves, over sized dome pistons, ect. And price wasn't too bad considering the what's getting done. But buy an average condition smallport and spend a little on bearings, rings, ect and i'd say the price tag and effort you go to will be lower than the satisfaction u'll get from a 1ZZFE

[frost]

is it the 2zz engines that cant be rebuilt because of metal matrix bores or something? or at least not without the help of a resleeve of metal bores,

[matt dunn]

is it the 2zz engines that cant be rebuilt because of metal matrix bores or something? or at least not without the help of a resleeve of metal bores,

Same with 1ZZ from memeory.

[Dell'Orto]

wouldn't the easiest solution be a smallport 4AGE?

This, or 20v swap. Way cheaper than a 1ZZ, and bolts in piece of cake. Smallport wont even need cert.

[kompressor]

I will have a 2zz for sale soon Around $1200 with forged oil pump new water pump too.

Loom extra and may have ecu too

[matt dunn]

I will have a 2zz for sale soon Around $1200 with forged oil pump new water pump too.

Loom extra and may have ecu too

PM me when it comes up for sale as I know someone looking for a 2zz.

Matt

[Nuty|Mike]

I will have a 2zz for sale soon Around $1200 with forged oil pump new water pump too.

Loom extra and may have ecu too

why the sale on the chase for more power?

[QikStarlie]

replacing with a bigport 4age ?

[molex]

swapsies?