st185 blown head gasket.. pull head or whole engine?

[AE25]

just wandering whats going to be easiest?

bought this thing recently. i dont know history except has 217k on the clock. went for a cane round block after getting it. seemed to run fine, temps were fine, but when i parked up it was cooking.
car came with new water pump.. old owner thought over heating was a pump issue. i found undertray plastic had blocked radiator intake and old water pump showing signs of leakage. so possibly lack of airflow to radiator or previous owner could've run radiator dry.
so ive fitted new belts, tensioners etc and changed water pump. (old one was fine). whilst checking plug condition, i blasted airgun down plug holes and some water came out of #2 and 3 (after i'd cooked it). once i had the cambelt back on did a compression test today at 153, 122, 135, 167. boohoo engine still runs ok, but i havent filled radiator in case it'll put more water in the cylinders. not sure if car already had this issue or if my last cook up was nail in coffin.

so... whats the go on these 3sgte. if cooked.. scrap it? or pull head, check straightness of block and head and plane if necessary? replace all seals/gaskets? do i check hardness of alloy? is it quicker/easier doing head gasket job with engine in or out of car? or better to replace engine altogether? i have a spare or two stashed away just in case.
thanks for any assistance.. just want this thing going for a winter hack.

[loudstealthGT-Four]

yea you will need to get the head hardness tested, no use getting the head planned if its too soft as you'll end up were back where you are now.

Probably just as easy to chuck in a spare motor if you've got one as its just a straight forward swap and less $&#$% around.

Wouldnt say that its the best car for a hack car as they are quite high maintenance cars if not regularly serviced, i found that one out the hard way

[rollaholic]

compression test is not a headgasket test, though the water is not a great sign. is it using coolant?

if i were in your situation, i would probably want a leak down test. this will tell you where your compression problems lie, or at the very least you could try a wet compression test and perhaps a teekay. if it is indeed the headgasket, or perhaps an issue with the head (burnt valves etc) i would be looking to pull the head off and replace gasket / broken bits etc, with the presumption that the bottom end is in reasonable nick. this way you know what you have, whereas a secondhand engine can present its own set of issues.

actually if i were really in your situation i would probably try and sell it while its still driveable, but im a lazy bugger and i presume you want to fix it

[Malcolm]

fwiw, it'll be much less of a headache if you pull the engine out. There is bugger all clearance up the back of the engine for removing things around the back of the head, you'll do so much swearing and bleeding trying to remove the head with the motor in.

[AE25]

thanks for the replies. car not currently wofd or regn so cant drive to any place to get tk test. (can you buy a kit?). water out the exhaust wasn't excessive, and haven't driven it long enough to know if its using coolant.
i will however do a leak down test. i just figured that the water in the bores could only be a head gasket or warped head issue after cooking it and low compression on those cylinders confirmed it. could also be rusty bore or rings causing low compression if this has been happening for a while. argg lemon.
either way im not going to drive it with uneven pressure so something got to be done.
appreciate the ideas cheers
ps: im used to high maintenance cars.. at least the celica has no rust like all the others. (pre 1988)

[whynot]

recently did the head on my brothers st183? managed to do it with the motor in place but he has skinny arms and i refused to do some of the akward bits.
Radiator was blocked which cooked it. found that some of the head bolts were loose and the head had been wandering around wearing grooves into it. got it skimmed and put back together, all good.

[Malcolm]

yep it would definitely be easier minus 4wd and the turbo

[Rob]

Just cause its steaming doesn't mean its a blown gasket although you did say there was water in the cylinders.
Make sure its got no air locks in the cooling system and flush the radiator and heater core before making any big decisions.

[AE25]

yet to do leak down test (busy times). but low compression on 3 cylinders and water found in 2 of em doesn't sound promising. also wasn't any antifreeze in the system when i got it water looks like someone shat in the radiator.
no water at all in it atm. i ran it a bit without water just to dry off the combustion chambers, bores, rings etc till i get a chance to look at it.

[allencr]

...yet to do leak down test (busy times).

Forget about the leakdown test on the 2 good cyls., you know how it runs and that it's old & has a lot of mileage on it, water & low compression don't need any more proof.
Re-torque the head if you don't mind & wanna chance a usually futile gesture.
*****
*****
Also, the 'head hardness' stuff only seems to be common in Australia, did any particular old legend start it or is there a reason???

[AE25]

...yet to do leak down test (busy times).

*****
Also, the 'head hardness' stuff only seems to be common in Australia, did any particular old legend start it or is there a reason???

funny that.. actually i've only ever heard it from aussie forums ie toymods. ive never come across a workshop manual stating to check head hardness
also, in my eyes, the engine is farked. theres no question that the head is coming off. but whether i fix or replace depends on damage done...

[GT4-Addict]

Im about to start doing the same on my st185, Im going to replace the head/ gasket and check the block, hopefully it is still fine and wont need planed as i dont really have the means to pull the whole engine out at my flat, im planning on doing the head while the block sits in the car waiting haha

[AE25]

let us know how you go
i've put mine aside for now due to other priorities

[CAMB01]

Im about to start doing the same on my st185, Im going to replace the head/ gasket and check the block, hopefully it is still fine and wont need planed as i dont really have the means to pull the whole engine out at my flat, im planning on doing the head while the block sits in the car waiting haha

Take it from my experience doing a headgasket in place on a ST185 GT FOUR, its an aboslute bitch.
Pull the motor, will be done in half the time and half the swearing.

[AE25]

easiet to drop motor and box out together? or separate motor from box and lift motor out on it's own? id imagine the transfer case will be a nightmare to get to?

[CAMB01]

Drop the whole front end out

[sergei]

easiet to drop motor and box out together? or separate motor from box and lift motor out on it's own? id imagine the transfer case will be a nightmare to get to?

Separating gearbox in the car is almost impossible.

[Malcolm]

easiet to drop motor and box out together? or separate motor from box and lift motor out on it's own? id imagine the transfer case will be a nightmare to get to?

Separating gearbox in the car is almost impossible.

i've done it, the only way (AFAIK) is to separate the gearbox from the transfer case too, which involves getting at some very challenging bolts with some customised spanners...it's nowhere near as bad as trying to put the bloody gearbox back on with the engine in the car (at which point we gave up on the operation and pulled the motor)

[GT4-Addict]

Im not sure if i will be able to get the engine out, i dont have an engine crane that i can get a hold of haha. Im doing it with another mate and im pretty confident we will be able to do it in place, im not going to rush it ill probably have it parked up for a while and just do it slowly.

If life gets too tough however i might have to pull some strings and see what can be done haha

[rollaholic]

you can rent engine cranes no worries