ECU modding

[amdeman]

What can be done about altering a Toyota, recent style, ECU to alter the tune?
Are there options with an add-on chips, or anything like that, or is it standard with a piggyback, or full Link?

[Dell'Orto]

Cant really chip them as such, though some Japanese tuners added daughterboards with flashable ROMs. Piggyback or Link are the best options really.

[amdeman]

Cant really chip them as such, though some Japanese tuners added daughterboards with flashable ROMs. Piggyback or Link are the best options really.

So there are some daughter-board options?
Great, if that's the case!

Although a full Link, or similar standalone would be better.

What a about the likes of E-manage?

[dnalunchie]

Cant really chip them as such, though some Japanese tuners added daughterboards with flashable ROMs. Piggyback or Link are the best options really.

So there are some daughter-board options?
Great, if that's the case!

Although a full Link, or similar standalone would be better.

What a about the likes of E-manage?

Those piggy back ecu's can be fine but it really depends on the car and the engine it is trying to run. For instance I wouldn't try and run a VVTI 2jzgte with one but a simple 4age setup would probably run fine.

Also consider the fact that the new Link "Atom" ecu's are very nearly as cheap as the pared down versions of the Jap ecu's but the Atom still packs a pretty wide range of features.

Hope this helps and anyone feel free to correct me if I have overlooked something

[sergei]

The problem with aftermaket ECU are the following:
They don't do as well as stock ecu on knock control.
They don't do as well as stock ecu on closed loop fuel trim control.

If you can live without those features, then aftermarket ECU is a go.

The stock ECU does those features really well as it increases longevity of the engine and reduces the emissions. Aftermarket ECU companies don't have huge R&D department with huge R&D budget to make those features work at same level as say Denso/Toyota, nor they have the need as their customer base usually runs fixed fuel and doesn't care about emissions.

[MAGN1T]

If you've got a turbo, then speed density setups suffer from tuning drift due to heatsoak of the intercooler and intake manifold, that's why people talk about the tune changing with the weather.
Speed density needs retuning with every modification, afm based factory setups don't.
That's why the aftermarket industry / tuners love aftermarket ECUs, it's an ongoing money maker.

Steve

[amdeman]

Done a bit of research and discovered that late model ECUs (OBDII) are 're-flash-able'.
Also that there is an Android APP, in conjunction with a BlueTooth adaptor, to monitor and alter the tune of the standard (OBDII) ECU, looks like real time as well!

[Mr Revhead]

Not quite as easy as that!

You will need special software to reflash them.

And the android app will read and display data, but I'd be skeptical about tuning. If it can it will only be fine tuning within the factory parameters.
Ie just the same amount as a ODB II tool

[MAGN1T]

It all depends on your starting point and what you want to do with it. Pretty much all modern ECUs (late 90s ish) are reflashable, they make them that way to keep down production costs and allow the same hardware to be used in a number of different models.
As far as being able to reflash them goes, well it's just a case of someone reverse engineering the factory tools. It's already been done with mitsubish, subaru and no doubt many others too. Don't know about Toyota yet.
Aftermarket ECUs really only have a place in race only cars and conversions from carbs although carb conversions these days are probably best done by a trip to pick a part.
There's also plenty of good add on kitsets from Jaycar which allow you do do all sorts, depending on your imagination and your ability. Just got to be aware that if (when) you get it wrong, like any tuning, it could cost you a motor.

Steve

[gt4dude]

What would you guys suggest in my case then, with

Gen 3 3S-GTE ST205

Standard ecu

Garrett GT28RS disco potato

factory fuelling system with factory 540cc injectors

Standard boost 14psi

at this level, the GT28RS runs very close to the standard CT20b turbo, aside from having awesome BB spoolup. The turbo is capable of running up around 20psi, the ECU is not.

So FCD & water injection? Or Link G4 plugin?

[sergei]

What would you guys suggest in my case then, with

Gen 3 3S-GTE ST205

Standard ecu

Garrett GT28RS disco potato

factory fuelling system with factory 540cc injectors

Standard boost 14psi

at this level, the GT28RS runs very close to the standard CT20b turbo, aside from having awesome BB spoolup. The turbo is capable of running up around 20psi, the ECU is not.

So FCD & water injection? Or Link G4 plugin?

Link G4 plugin.
FCD is stupid idea, with water injection you still need to control A/F ratio, with FCD it is uncontrolled.

Third option:
Wire in motec and get somebody competent to set it up and tune, while maintaining as many factory options as possible.

There is also Apexi ECU but not sure how good it is (ask Akane).

[MAGN1T]

An FCD on it's own does nothing. It's there to stop the ECU from cutting the fuel when the injectors are nearly maxed out.
The idea of using an FCD is to add something else to add extra fuel. That's where an AIC (auxiliary injector controller) becomes useful.
The idea behind water injection is to increase the octane rating of the fuel so preventing knock.

Steve

[matt dunn]

[Third option:
Wire in motec and get somebody competent to set it up and tune, while maintaining as many factory options as possible.

Why would that be any better than the latest G4?

[dnalunchie]

What would you guys suggest in my case then, with

Gen 3 3S-GTE ST205

Standard ecu

Garrett GT28RS disco potato

factory fuelling system with factory 540cc injectors

Standard boost 14psi

at this level, the GT28RS runs very close to the standard CT20b turbo, aside from having awesome BB spoolup. The turbo is capable of running up around 20psi, the ECU is not.

So FCD & water injection? Or Link G4 plugin?

G4 Tuned by STM, or ST Hytec or similar.

Done

[sergei]

[Third option:
Wire in motec and get somebody competent to set it up and tune, while maintaining as many factory options as possible.

Why would that be any better than the latest G4?

I speculate (as I don't have first hand experience, only by reading spec sheets) it has better knock control and closed loop fuel trim control.
What I seen with G4, it has features but they are still lacking.

[MAGN1T]

[Third option:
Wire in motec and get somebody competent to set it up and tune, while maintaining as many factory options as possible.

Why would that be any better than the latest G4?

Because it costs more and you always get what you pay for?

Yea right?

Steve

[sergei]

I am just dissapointed what you can do with Link.
It has aux outputs and inputs, but when you want do something more that basic trigger off inputs, you are stuffed.

For example very simple thing like controlling water pump:

I want water pump for I/C to turn on for 1 min and off for 3 min unless full throttle then run full time. Can you do that with link? Nope, you need little black box to do that.

Why do I have to fill in the Aux input map for standard BOSCH temp sensor? Why only Temp inputs have preset for the temp senosr. They were too cheap to put 1k pull up resistor on every single input (and yes it is not too expensive to add ~20c parts on $1500 unit), and make all inputs Temp input capable. Now I have random 1k resostor in my loom - not tidy.

There are many flaws I found with G4, that I can't remember now.

If you want an ECU that will handle occasional fill up with 95 while being tuned for 98 (in case of Jap import 100) your Link will not do that. It will happily knock your engine.

Will link self adjust for drifting senors? Nope. It does not have Fuel Trim adjustment based on sensors. So it will consume more fuel.

I am not sure if Motec does that, but what I seen from demonstrations the configuration/tuning app is much more powerful.

Fivebob is the one who can outline why Motec is superior to Link.

[matt dunn]

I I am not sure if Motec does that, but what I seen from demonstrations the configuration/tuning app is much more powerful.

When we had motec in the focus it wouldn't do all that and it was 4x the price.

[fivebob]

For example very simple thing like controlling water pump:

I want water pump for I/C to turn on for 1 min and off for 3 min unless full throttle then run full time. Can you do that with link? Nope, you need little black box to do that.

Motec won't do that either, well not without some extra hardware anyway. You'd have to add a relay and use a digital input to trigger the timer when the pump was switched off. There's probably a way to do it without the relay, it's just not obvious.

Why do I have to fill in the Aux input map for standard BOSCH temp sensor? Why only Temp inputs have preset for the temp senosr.

While the Motec lets you use any calibration on any input, if you don't have a standard device then you'll have to provide the map. That said, there's a large selection of standard devices so most of the time you can use a preset.

If you want an ECU that will handle occasional fill up with 95 while being tuned for 98 (in case of Jap import 100) your Link will not do that. It will happily knock your engine.

Motec can do that either by having a separate map which you can switch to, dialing back the ignition advance with an in car control, or using knock detection, but that's an expensive option that's not really suited to the task.

Will link self adjust for drifting senors? Nope. It does not have Fuel Trim adjustment based on sensors. So it will consume more fuel.

Not sure what you mean by this, sensors drift with age and you'd need to calibrate them manually as the system has no way of doing it. The motec will however give you multiple trim adjustments for fuel based on just about any sensor or condition you want.

[dnalunchie]

I was going to dissagree with your sergei but then I realised I would need to be prepared for a lengthy discussion, so I didn't bother.

Know that I was lurking tho..... lurking hard