Making a 3SGTE produce 300BHP

[gt4toy]

I've just purchased an 1986 ST165 GT4 and I'm wanting to turn it into a track day car, as well as a daily driver.

300bhp is the goal, but I'm wondering if anyone else on here has done that, and what are the best parts to replace/modify/etc to get this.

I'm thinking of starting with swapping the engine out for a newer 3SGTE (ST215 I think) as they are already producing 260hp vs 185hp in mine and figure 75hp for a couple of grand is a good first step.

[Grrrrrrr!]

Probably better to go for the 3sgte out of the later mr2s or st205 GT-fours, toyota did their usual trick of lightening up conrods etc in the st215 motor so they tend to bend conrods pretty easily (reportedly).

[bzrspeed]

Da i get it, was trying to help but i wont anymore.
Good luck with build.

[strx7]

if you find a suitable bottom end, i have a ported 3SGTE 3rd gen style head for sale with 264 degree cams, custom inlet manifold/exhaust manifold/TD05 turbo/external wastegate, can be complete with injectors, haltech E6X, loom etc etc, made 270HP @ AWD at 15psi with a 2.1 stroker bottom end. PM me if you want pics, details etc.

[gt4toy]

Why do you need 300hp if it is a daily driven car? the WRC cars had 300hp.
Write down what you want it to be like, make a clear list of what your goal are.

I have been build race cars for over 12 years now and i know from experience daily driven race cars are a terrible idea.

When plan your build take into account, fuel lines, brake upgrade, diff upgrade, cooling upgrade otherwise waste money.

With 3s Toyota engine it is easy to get results, engine pretty well made from factory. But even WRC 3sge+t or 3sgte only last 800 mile before rebuild.

Never believe manufacture as they test engines with nothing attached. 260hp in Toyota world is maybe 220hp in real world. Renault are worst for this.

Driven some 300bhp cars and like that power, not to much, not to little.

Will be upgrading other items as I go like brakes, etc.

Motorbike will be driven most days, just when wet and on weekends, etc.

[sergei]

I've just purchased an 1986 ST165 GT4 and I'm wanting to turn it into a track day car, as well as a daily driver.

300bhp is the goal, but I'm wondering if anyone else on here has done that, and what are the best parts to replace/modify/etc to get this.

I'm thinking of starting with swapping the engine out for a newer 3SGTE (ST215 I think) as they are already producing 260hp vs 185hp in mine and figure 75hp for a couple of grand is a good first step.

195kW at the 4 wheels at 16psi is what I got out of stock gen1 (ST165) with CT20b and Link. Nothing wrong with gen1 engine either. I had to pull mine out as it was in NZ for too long and water had rusted the block too much. The head gasket was leaking gases into coolant.

The gen1 block has no problem handling that sort of power. The gen1 head flows well enough to make 300bhp* at 1bar.

The problems you will face once on the track are:
1) Stock gearbox (with vacuum diff lock) is completely useless (it will spin the front wheels), get ST205 one instead.
2) No LSD in rear (it was optional), get ST185/205 rear diff
3) Brakes are completely useless after couple of laps. Will need upgrade (could fit ST205 with spacers)
4) The stock suspension got to go. a) need to do something about huge understeer (need more caster) b) the body flexes too much (especially in the rear) c) the stock shocks are completely useless, especially if they were on since 1986
5) need R888 or similar, otherwise you will overheat the road tyres after 5 laps, spin out and crash.

* At the engine.

[sergei]

Oh, and no matter what you do, the Hondas with half of power will still be running circles around you .

[Rookie]

Why do you need 300hp if it is a daily driven car? the WRC cars had 300hp.

This is a retarded and completely irrelevant comment. For one, he isn't going to have a restrictor, so his peak power isn't going to be at 4500 rpm, and also his car isn't going to weigh the 1200 kg WRC weight limit.

Do beams motors go in celicas?

[bzrspeed]

Why do you need 300hp if it is a daily driven car? the WRC cars had 300hp.

This is a retarded and completely irrelevant comment. For one, he isn't going to have a restrictor, so his peak power isn't going to be at 4500 rpm, and also his car isn't going to weigh the 1200 kg WRC weight limit.

Do beams motors go in celicas?

I think you miss point but ok. I was try to help.

[sergei]

With 3s Toyota engine it is easy to get results, engine pretty well made from factory. But even WRC 3sge+t or 3sgte only last 800 mile before rebuild.

Never believe manufacture as they test engines with nothing attached. 260hp in Toyota world is maybe 220hp in real world. Renault are worst for this.

Completely irrelevant, as WRC run restrictors. Unrestric that engine and you get 500+Hp.

The 3SGTE can do 300Hp @ 1-1.2Bar at the engine all day long with right tune.

As for the 260Hp, it is at the engine, add 4WD to it and you are down to the 220Hp at the wheels. The stock healthy ST205 will easily do 150-160kW at the wheels. If you think figures for ST205 are inflated, then if you put one on the drag strip you can get 13.4-13.8s quarter mile, which is consistent for quoted power vs the weight of the car.

[Quint]

Da i get it, was trying to help but i wont anymore.
Good luck with build.

forum tutorial 101:

Correct response would have been

[Akane]

Oh, and no matter what you do, the Hondas with half of power will still be running circles around you .

joke_of_the_day.jpg?

Or does it apply to ST165's only?

[Lith]

Any of the range would be a safe bet

[sergei]

Oh, and no matter what you do, the Hondas with half of power will still be running circles around you .

joke_of_the_day.jpg?

Or does it apply to ST165's only?

joke_of_the_day.jpg

[Heylin]

I was getting 185 rwkw out of my Link G4 powered MR2.

CT20b running 18psi, stock injectors.

Wouldnt want to go anymore than this, and you would want a nicely maintained motor and turbo to handle safely.

[MR2SIK]

291hp gen3 on old skool linkplus, 95 octane. so woulda most likely hit 300 if 98 fuel was available. Also had a fault with the ignition that developed a miss after 6000rpm.

ct20b 16psi, light tickle with the valves & ports.

very doable, very responsive, very fun.

[Trls250s]

The old man (who often uses my account and posts as me) is running a 3sgte in a ST165 with full ST205 Running gear.

It originally was a ST205 block, head, ct26b. It ended up being port and polished by Tim (if you have a gt4 you will know who he is and this ran 168 atw on the dyno at Perfect Power.

However running at hampton downs there was an issue with the coolant filling the overflow bottle while racing, then draining back into the engine when stopped.

Had been eluding us for a while, then he decided to throw HKS cams in it and i was giving him a hand when i noticed a crack in number 3 between the cylinder wall and water jacket.

Apparently this is a common defect with ST205 blocks and if your block is unmachined you will get a factory replacement!

I would start with a ST215 block or work the 165 engine if i was you.

He is currently running JE pistons, Carillo rods, head work as previously stated with a GT2876RS on 8 PSI and i believe it is seeing over 200kwatw on a run in tune.

It has been done.





Still gets dailyed

[QikStarlie]

Making a 3SGTE produce 300BHP

put a 4age in it?

[gt4toy]

Cheers for the replies guys.

Good to see some actual power figures from mods as well, helps me decide which route to go.

Think I will replace with newer engine and go from there, that way I can get the engine sorted with the needed mods and drop in and still keep driving the car as is in the mean time.

[MR2SIK]

291hp gen3 on old skool linkplus, 95 octane. so woulda most likely hit 300 if 98 fuel was available. Also had a fault with the ignition that developed a miss after 6000rpm.

ct20b 16psi, light tickle with the valves & ports.

very doable, very responsive, very fun.

also, my turbo was pretty much shagged too.

I believe someone on here was cracking on 200kw with the same setup minus the head work a while back.. Wildcard maybe??