water injection pump

[bzrspeed]

hi.
Sorry to ask another question so quickly. I am also installing all the lines for the water injection setup.
I installed the 0.80" spray nozle in the manifold, i also ran the water line to the trunk of the car. I have installed the filter which is one from a water cooler. Now the pump is a coffee machine one, it flows the same as an aquamist but only cost $92+gst.

The question is what would the best way to control it?
I was orginally thinking at 3\4 throttle using a throttle position sensor, but is this the best way? What sort of controls do you all use on your water injection setups? I have a control unit for the pump which a comrade electrican built for me. Its the one from autospeed shop. The issue i guess is do i run it off a throttle position sesnsor which will turn it on or do i turn it on manually?

Would a switch on the dash be better? Like a on/off switch which i can turn on? Also should i put a speed motor controller for the pump? So if i run a switch i can adjust it.

I have a good idea on what i want to do just thought i would ask what you all use on your water systems.

The spray will also be used on the radaitor and oil cooler to keep temputures down.

[rollaholic]

i'd have thought you would want it to be automatic, last thing you want to be worrying about whilst giving a car death is if the water injection needs to be on or off.

i would also have thought that if your radiator and oil cooler need a water sprayer to function then they are not doing their jobs very well.

i did read quite a good write up about an intercooler water spray some time ago though - shall see if i can find the link.

edit - here is the first in the series, if you scroll to the bottom it has links to the following articles

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527

not sure if the car you are talking about is actually turbocharged though, haha

[Grrrrrrr!]

If this is for a turbo/supercharged engine I would find a pressure switch so it turns on anytime you are at more than X psi of boost.

[bzrspeed]

this is for a naturally aspriated engine. I am using a water injection setup in order to combat detination and improve cooling.

The spray for the coolers is just a bonus. What do you run on your setup?

[bzrspeed]

this is for a naturally aspriated engine. I am using a water injection setup in order to combat detination and improve cooling.

The spray for the coolers is just a bonus. What do you run on your setup?

[Grrrrrrr!]

I don't.... yet

[bzrspeed]

Throttle Position Switch i understand is the easiest way to control the pump, but i know it has big downsides such as Switches off on gear changes, even when driving hard, Operates even when engine is cold and is very Wasteful of water.

What other options do I have on a non turbocharged car? The tank is only 7L so do not have that much water to use.

[sergei]

Is going to be EFI? Aftermarket ECU will have some options to do what you want.

You could use something like this:
http://jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID= ... TID=965#11
And modify it to suit your needs.

[Mr Revhead]

I'd be pretty keen to hear more about the pump and spray nozzles you are using. Planning water injection myself

[bzrspeed]

Comrade Revhead it is so easy to build and install.

Now I know your car comrade Revhead is much more powerful and better then my lada so you may need to pick a different spray attachment as the one i am using will be too small.

All the blow are 1/4 inch tip
0.60 flows 65ml a min
TN1.5 flows 145ml a min
TN 2 flows 170ml a min
TN3 flows 230ml a min

The setup I am using has the following parts:

1x Ulka E5EX coffee machine pump which can flow 200cc a minute at a pressure of 145 psi. This was $93+GST
1x 12 > 240V AC 150W inverter which I got from Jaycar for $32+GST
1x Unijet ¼ inch TT male body spray nozzle holder, screen strainer, spray tip and a 0.60 tip $18+GST from bunnings
1x water filter element approx 280mm long and 70mm in diameter. It’s rated to 125 psi but since i am putting it pre-pump and the pump will suck through it, this is not an issue. $14.50+GST from waterworks in Auckland.
I used 8.2m of 4mm O/D Nylon (internal bore 1.7mm to 2.5mm) which cost me trade $0.82c per M

Total cost for a water injection kit: $164.23 compared to $800+ for an aquamist setup. The pump if run for long periods of time needs some form of cooling, i suggest a simple fan setup.

What I am also doing is operating a valve where i can adjust the water spray and send it to the radiator or the coil cooler as i will mount a small nozzle on them. This is a bit of an over design but I am doing it right the first time. But you do not need to do that.

Please let me know if i can help you comrade Revhead.

[strx7]

www.coolingmist.com


i'm currently running a pair of 2GPH nozzles on my cruiser but will soon be adding a 5GPH nozzle to it aswell

[bzrspeed]

www.coolingmist.com


i'm currently running a pair of 2GPH nozzles on my cruiser but will soon be adding a 5GPH nozzle to it aswell

That is in United states is it not?, this system I make does the same thing just a lot cheaper. I am using 1.3Gal per hour but was thinking about the TN1.5 setup which is a 3.4Gal nozzle but it will be too big for my engine.

[strx7]

yes it is the US, the only pumps i can find that are similar in NZ are close to $500 each.

does the pump you are using have a built in regulator so you can set it to say 200psi and it will prime then only turn on when the pressure drops below 200psi?
is it also safe to use with methanol or other alcohols?
can it also run dry without causing any issues?

the cooling mist pump can flow over 15GPH @ 250psi

I'm triggering it off a pressure switch
Meths & water is like NOS on a deisel

[bzrspeed]

yes it is the US, the only pumps i can find that are similar in NZ are close to $500 each.

does the pump you are using have a built in regulator so you can set it to say 200psi and it will prime then only turn on when the pressure drops below 200psi?
is it also safe to use with methanol or other alcohols?
can it also run dry without causing any issues?

the cooling mist pump can flow over 15GPH @ 250psi

I'm triggering it off a pressure switch
Meths & water is like NOS on a deisel

Thank you for the debate. I like to answer questions.

The pump has a built in regulator which can be set from 100psi to 360psi safely. The pump is always on when activated. Which is a down side but the cost saving makes up for it.

It can be run dry, it has an auto shut down when no water is present.
It can be run with methanol (others have used it so i can not personally vouch for it).

Yes the cool mist can flow 15gph but it costs 5 or 6 times as much and for a 2000cc N/A car it is more then enough. The max flow on the little pump I will be using is 10.4Gph which is not a lot compared to the brought one.

Even a 130 ml spray provides a potential cooling power of just under 5kW. which is the same as a large top mounted intercooler.

Why not run nitrous on your diesel? I am running performance gas on the lada.

[strx7]

i am using meths/methanol to fuel the extra air i have going in that the deisel pump cannot cater for. the water is for cooling purposes. the extra nozzle will give me around 30hp more than my current set up, which will provide an additonal 35-50hp and 70-90Nm. and there is no possibilities of flashbacks like can happen with LPG injection on a deisel

[bzrspeed]

I dont have the need for meths as my car will not make enough horsepower to warrant the use of it. The issue is the engine is pretty much stretching the chassis to its max in terms of tourque and horsepower. As such I just want to make sure it lasts a long time so am taking steps to ensure it is cooled. Plus the engine I have chosen has a few issues which need addressing and a water injection system helps with the hot sports in the head so it does not per-inginte.

I am impressed you get 30hp+ which is really good. I hope for 3-6hp maximum. How much water do you carry? i only have a 7L tank which is the maximum size i can run in the area i want to put the tank.

[strx7]

i only have a 5 litre tank. on my cruiser, the injection pump is only fueling 10psi worth of deisel, to run more boost than that and make power i need to inject alcohol in one way shape or form. 15psi with my turbo & engine flows 50hp worth of air, so i need to fuel in 50hp worth of alcohol, preferably at around 35% alcohol and 65% water, the water provides a torque increase do the increased cylinder expansion pressure as well as a combustion cooler to keep the egt's down. the power and torque gains from alcohol and water injection in a diesel is considerably more then what you will gain in a petrol.

[bzrspeed]

That is very intresting. Str7 you are very wise comrade.

I never planned on using the water injection as a way to increase horse power and torque. I planned it as a preventative measure to ensure the engine does not throw a rod or pre ignite. With the power adding gas system i will be using i wounder if i should not setup the water injection to work at the same time. STRX7 would that work? Or would it over complicate the issue and flood the engine?

I am now thinking my nozzle is not big enough, and i should run meth as well. Would the nylon pipe i already ran be able to cope with this or do i need to run stainless line?

The pump i am going for around 200psi to ensure that i dont flood the engine.

[cedwards]

sorry hijack,
always wondered on the limitations of modding a diesel
strx7
How much extra boost and non-compressible liquid can you throw at an engine that relies on compression (with a little help from residual heat) before it starts detonating?[/quote]

[matt dunn]

My bet is the first part of your system to fail will be the inverter from jaycar,

Have had heaps of them through work all faulty all with the same problem.

IMO a 240V pump is not the answer for reliability.


I used to run an Aquamist system in my car when it was 1600cc turbo,
but when i built the 1800 turbo we tried with and without it and decided not to use it.

It was about 250cc/min and was activated at 10psi on a pressure switch.