The curious case of the caldina that wouldn't start..

[snwtoy]

Hey guys, me again. Caldina won't starty :/

Here's the story:

About a 5-6 weeks ago, I had the fuel filter and pickup cleaned. I don't think this is related, but mentioning it just in case. Car was running mint after this.

So anyway, a couple of weekends ago I removed:

Battery
Intercooler
Alternator
Turbo
Manifold

Car has sat going nowhere while I've had various bits and pieces fixed up, and I've just got it back together tonight.

The only new part has been the alternator belt, everything else is the same. The belt was rather tight to get back on - again don't think this is related but mentioning it anyway.

While reassembling, just before I put the i/c back on, I unplugged the coils and turned it over till I had oil flowing through the turbo oil return. I then plugged the coils back in and put the i/c back on etc.

Fuel-wise it has about 1/3 of a tank.

Alarm sets and unsets all ok.

Battery seems good, although it is a couple of years old it's never given me any trouble.

Engine turns over really well.

I'm thinking next I need to be checking fuel and spark - what's the easiest way to do these tests?

Anything obvious I've missed?

[Mr Ree]

Did you have to unplug any cam/crank angle sensors?

[CAMB01]

Flooded and spark plugs are wet maybe. Easiest thing is to remove the plugs and check for spark first. Although not so easy with top mount IC.

[strx7]

I unplugged the coils and turned it over till I had oil flowing through the turbo oil return.

because the ecu was still reading the crank and cam sensor while you cranked it over it would have fired the injectors for the amount of cranking you did. Pull the coil packs out, pull the spark plugs, unplug the injectors, crank it a little to dry it out, put the plugs back in, connect injectors and coils and you should be away laughing.

[Grrrrrrr!]

Before you go pulling lots of stuff off again, trying cranking for 20-30 secs with your foot flat to the floor. This puts many ECUs into a flood clearing mode. Make sure you have a fully charged battery.

[gt4dude]

Before you go pulling lots of stuff off again, trying cranking for 20-30 secs with your foot flat to the floor. This puts many ECUs into a flood clearing mode. Make sure you have a fully charged battery.

??

[Mr Ree]

^^ I did not know that.

What Toyota ECU's do that, please?

[Grrrrrrr!]

Not sure what Toyota ecus do it, but I believe most Ford, GM, and older bosch ecus, and several aftermarket ecus do it.

[matt dunn]

Not sure what Toyota ecus do it, but I believe most Ford, GM, and older bosch ecus, and several aftermarket ecus do it.

correct, not sure if toyota do it or not, but dont think so,
but flooded toyota's will still start this way eventually so is worth a shot.

[Grrrrrrr!]

I suspect most pre 95ish toyotas probably do it to, since their ecus are basically clones of bosch Jetronic ECUs. Not sure what toyota uses in the later model stuff.

Would be good to know what cars do this, since it makes starting a new engine nice and simple. Foot to floor until oil pressure is up, then foot off gas = start... Anybody got a scope and time to experiment?

[AE82 FXGT]

Before you go pulling lots of stuff off again, trying cranking for 20-30 secs with your foot flat to the floor. This puts many ECUs into a flood clearing mode. Make sure you have a fully charged battery.

Just a heads up I knew this trick and gave it a shot with my GTZ for shits and giggles but it just started and I revved the shit out of it. Was an AE101 btw.

[snwtoy]

Thanks for all the replies!!

I've been away for the last day or more, but will be trying these suggestions in the morning. I assume that having been sitting for more than 24 hours now it shouldn't be flooded any more?

[MrOizo]

Maybe on one cylinder that had a valve left open after cranking.

If you havent changed the spark plugs in some time, this is a good time to do it. First start up after having it flooded and having changed the plugs is magical!

[matt dunn]

I assume that having been sitting for more than 24 hours now it shouldn't be flooded any more?

sorry but flooded is flooded, the fuel will still be there if your car has decent rings,
and spark plugs dont unfoul themselves while sitting.

presuming that is the problem.

[Lloyd]

Wet plugs and fouled plugs not being the same however

[snwtoy]

sorry but flooded is flooded, the fuel will still be there if your car has decent rings,
and spark plugs dont unfoul themselves while sitting.

presuming that is the problem.

Hmm.. the rings are around 190 thou old now, so definitely wouldn't be 'as new' heh.

Maybe on one cylinder that had a valve left open after cranking.

If you havent changed the spark plugs in some time, this is a good time to do it. First start up after having it flooded and having changed the plugs is magical!

You're right actually, plugs haven't been changed for probably 60 thou, and I think the iridium plugs are ounly rated for around 40, so this would be a good opportunity.

If it doesn't start first thing tomorrow I'll go buy some new plugs!

Before you go pulling lots of stuff off again, trying cranking for 20-30 secs with your foot flat to the floor. This puts many ECUs into a flood clearing mode. Make sure you have a fully charged battery.

At a physical level, if there's fuel sloshing around in the cylinders, what does 'flood clearing mode' actually do? I don't want to completely ruin the battery

[matt dunn]

At a physical level, if there's fuel sloshing around in the cylinders, what does 'flood clearing mode' actually do?

It wont open the injectors.
(on the fords etc anyway)

[Lloyd]

Ignore the flood clearing thing, the 2 posts about it started with "Not sure what Toyota ecus do it" and "I suspect most pre 95ish toyotas probably do it".

Have you actually confirmed if you're missing spark or fuel yet?
Pull the plugs and see what they look like. If they're wet with fuel then you're likely lacking spark. If they're fouled (covered in black) then you've got a lot of fuel and spark which is burning and coating the plug. If they're clean and dry then you're probably lacking fuel.

To check for spark, have a lead/coil sitting out and push a spark plug into it. Have the thread/hex of the plug sitting on the rocker cover or something earthed, crank it and see if there is spark.

To check that fuel is getting to the cylinders (after confirming you have spark) is to remove a vacuum hose (preferably somewhere close to the injectors or just after the throttle) and squirt in some engine start/ether (available in a can that looks like CRC). Put the hose back on and give it a crank. If it fires and dies then you're lacking fuel somehow. To check for fuel pump fault, remove the hose to the fuel filter or rail and give the car a crank. Fuel should squirt out. If this isn't happening then you're likely either got a dead fuel pump or a faulty relay. To see if its the relay you can bridge the terminals, try another relay (other ones may fit from the fusebox), and/or check the switching signals to the relay. Also check fuses.



Basically you need to know if you're lacking fuel or spark and go from there.
Easiest way is to check the spark plugs and see if they're wet, fouled or dry. If wet, check spark. If dry then check spark and fuel. If fouled, throw new plugs in and see what happens.

[snwtoy]

just got the plugs out, they're pretty black. I'll go get some more now:)

[snwtoy]

Ok, so supercheap need to order the plugs in at $28 per plug. Ripco had them in stock for $38 and wouldn't budge. So I gave them the finger and walked out.

I cleaned up the old plugs wth a wire brush.

Did the spark check, all ok.

Bought some CRC engine start, and it does start and die when I spray it into the TB.

I'll go remove the top hose on the fuel filter now, and see what happens there. Couldn't see a relay or fuse for fuel on the under-bonnet fuse box.