Coilover Camber Question

[Kiwi-Corolla]

$&#$% factory specs! you can never have too much camber...even at 5deg the handling is awesome.

Negative camber looks nice, but if the toe is going to be that far out as a result I'd rather just have it within the factory specs. I don't fancy replacing the tyres all the time due to sidewall wear.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Rather than make a new thread, I have a couple of other questions regarding my coilovers.

1. On the driver's side front coilover it makes a bit of a rumbling sound sometimes. I have a feeling that it might be the pillowball mount making the noise. I chucked some grease on the top of the bearing before installing them, but I didn't actual disassemble them to grease it properly. One of the camber plates pivoted really easily whereas the other one took a bit more effort to move. Is this a sign that one of the spherical bearings (pillowball mount) is on the way out or needs proper greasing?

2. My rear coilovers make a rattling noise over bumps. Not so noticeable on smooth tarmac (until you hit a bump) but is very noticeable over chip-seal type roads. Sounds like something is loose and is rattling up and down, but everything is torqued down correctly. The coilovers have helper springs to keep the springs captive when the car is raised and the spring feels nice and tight when both loaded and unloaded.

Any ideas?

[touge_ae101]

$&#$% factory specs! you can never have too much camber...even at 5deg the handling is awesome.

Negative camber looks nice, but if the toe is going to be that far out as a result I'd rather just have it within the factory specs. I don't fancy replacing the tyres all the time due to sidewall wear.

you understand wrong. it will give you a toe change which can then be fixed by getting a wheel alignment. be careful who you go to for an alignment as well some places think factory specs are the best way to make a car handle which is utter tripe.

Had a guy turn up to the track with a full race prepped ae101with slicks and wondered why he was slower than my car on road tyres..

camber wear isn't an issue even with 5deg still got 15000km out of my 17s. trick is to flip the tyres after every 5000km or so. easy way to solve camber wear.

[touge_ae101]

As an example the difference between L and R camber settings is normally used to make sure the car drives in a straight line on the camber of the road.

which of course means nothing if you are after performance handling.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

you understand wrong. it will give you a toe change which can then be fixed by getting a wheel alignment. be careful who you go to for an alignment as well some places think factory specs are the best way to make a car handle which is utter tripe.

Had a guy turn up to the track with a full race prepped ae101with slicks and wondered why he was slower than my car on road tyres..

That's where my problem lay originally. I had 2-degrees negative camber on the front and it was preventing the alignment of the toe back to zero. Closest they could get it to was 2.5mm, which made the steering wheel crooked, pull to one side slightly and chew out my tyres. Now that I've gone back to factory front camber they've managed to get my toe right down to 0.4mm and the steering wheel is straight once again.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

As an example the difference between L and R camber settings is normally used to make sure the car drives in a straight line on the camber of the road.

which of course means nothing if you are after performance handling.

That's good to know because I was wondering why the camber settings were different from left to right. For example, my rear camber setting is -1.40 on the left and -2.10 on the right. Whereas my front camber is almost the same now that they aligned it again and changed the camber for me. So it's now -0.15 on the left and -0.10 on the right.

[touge_ae101]

I call BS. The real way to solve that problem is to centre the steering rack so each arm is equal length then take the steering wheel off and line up on the correct spline. this does make a difference to handling due to having equal ackerman when turning in each direction.

this is step 1 of what we do for racecar alignments.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

I call BS. The real way to solve that problem is to centre the steering rack so each arm is equal length then take the steering wheel off and line up on the correct spline. this does make a difference to handling due to having equal ackerman when turning in each direction.

this is step 1 of what we do for racecar alignments.

I don't think my $75 alignment stretched that far

[Mr Revhead]

It should do as that's what the payment is for. To align your car.

[Mr Revhead]

It should do as that's what the payment is for. To align your car.

[touge_ae101]

It should do as that's what the payment is for. To align your car.

+1 the service most alignment places give is pretty average for someone with a request that isn't the norm. and tbh in my experience a lot alignment technicians don't actually understand what is actually happening.

i would only trust magnturbo in palmy with my alignment. cant speak for other magnturbos but here they work on a lot of racecars and nick there is the brains behind a lot of awesome suspension setups and paddy does all the cages etc.

[RunningRich]

+1 the service most alignment places give is pretty average

My last ST205 alignment came back with the rear toe of the car in red still. I asked why.

"We didn't know the rear was adjustable."

Same place aligned by 2000 BMW using alignment data for a 2005 BMW. That was the next model...

Won't be going back

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Rather than make a new thread, I have a couple of other questions regarding my coilovers.

1. On the driver's side front coilover it makes a bit of a rumbling sound sometimes. I have a feeling that it might be the pillowball mount making the noise. I chucked some grease on the top of the bearing before installing them, but I didn't actual disassemble them to grease it properly. One of the camber plates pivoted really easily whereas the other one took a bit more effort to move. Is this a sign that one of the spherical bearings (pillowball mount) is on the way out or needs proper greasing?

2. My rear coilovers make a rattling noise over bumps. Not so noticeable on smooth tarmac (until you hit a bump) but is very noticeable over chip-seal type roads. Sounds like something is loose and is rattling up and down, but everything is torqued down correctly. The coilovers have helper springs to keep the springs captive when the car is raised and the spring feels nice and tight when both loaded and unloaded.

Any ideas?

[crispy'86]

Okay to answer your questions as best as possible

1.
I'd be saying the drivers side will need the pillow ball mount greasing then try again. Could be worn which is easy to fix. Autolign do one for ae92's which is easily modifiable for your car. In which case maybe do both sides if it's cost effective.

2. the rear rattling could well be the locking retainer nut is loose. Check these with your "c" spanners, doesn't take much for them to rattle and clang away. Also check everything is tight i.e top nut on the strut to be sure

[Kiwi-Corolla]

^ Thanks a lot. I appreciate the help. It's been bugging the hell out of me

I jacked up the right rear corner earlier (seems to be this side that's making the most noise) and wiggled the wheel up and down (seemed to be the only way to replicate the noise as jumping up and down in the boot didn't do it) and discovered that it's the shock shaft vibrating/rattling. I tried tightening the centre nut but it just constantly turns and doesn't become tight. After doing that the noise reduced when I moved the wheel up and down by hand, but it was still just as bad whilst driving.

I got someone to sit in the back as we went around the block with the rear swabs removed so the strut towers were exposed and we found out that you can feel the vibration through the centre nut. It moves a little while driving. I'm not sure if that's normal or not.......Would I be correct in saying that if I removed the rear coilovers to inspect them I wouldn't need another alignment after re-installing them since they have no influence on camber etc?

As for the front rumble that I get occasionally (can even feel it through the accelerator pedal), I have the older style Cusco coilovers which, from what I've read, have non replaceable bearings as they have been pressed and sealed . I might get lucky though.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Just went on a 200km trip to Tauranga and after getting some gas the rattling noise from the rear stopped completely. After fitting the coilovers I've been driving around with a quarter of a tank of gas, but it seems that anything above quarter is enough to stop the rattling as it makes the shock compress more due to the extra weight. Was a relief to know I didn't have to drive the whole way to Tauranga with that annoying rattling going on. Lost count of how many times the front wheels scrubbed against the guard liners due to dips in the road though (really going to have to sort that out when I get home).

As for the rattling issue, I was thinking about going slightly lower in the rear anyway, so theoretically speaking, if I lowered it more in the rear the noise would vanish as there would be more load on the shocks so it wouldn't have a chance to bounce up and down. Might try tightening the centre nut with a rattle gun too as apparently that's the only way to tighten it down properly.

[Lloyd]

How does lowering mean more load?

[iOnic]

As for the rattling issue, I was thinking about going slightly lower in the rear anyway, so theoretically speaking, if I lowered it more in the rear the noise would vanish as there would be more load on the shocks so it wouldn't have a chance to bounce up and down. Might try tightening the centre nut with a rattle gun too as apparently that's the only way to tighten it down properly.

Hungover/haven't read thread. So take all this with 2 grains of salt. Dunno what sort of coilovers you have but lowering the car shouldn't change the shock travel/load as you're usually adjusting the length of the shock body to achieve the height. The only way that lowering the vehicle will change the shock travel is if you achieve your height by preloading the spring via adjusting the distance between the spring perches - but I wouldn't go there.

The center nut doesn't need to be tightened with a rattle gun. I usually tighten with a 1/2 rathet then torque it on as you would any other nut, it doesn't need to be crazy tight. Usually around 30-50lbft but as I said, I don't know what sort of coilovers you have so it may be totally different

[Kiwi-Corolla]

How does lowering mean more load?

As for the rattling issue, I was thinking about going slightly lower in the rear anyway, so theoretically speaking, if I lowered it more in the rear the noise would vanish as there would be more load on the shocks so it wouldn't have a chance to bounce up and down. Might try tightening the centre nut with a rattle gun too as apparently that's the only way to tighten it down properly.

Hungover/haven't read thread. So take all this with 2 grains of salt. Dunno what sort of coilovers you have but lowering the car shouldn't change the shock travel/load as you're usually adjusting the length of the shock body to achieve the height. The only way that lowering the vehicle will change the shock travel is if you achieve your height by preloading the spring via adjusting the distance between the spring perches - but I wouldn't go there.

The center nut doesn't need to be tightened with a rattle gun. I usually tighten with a 1/2 rathet then torque it on as you would any other nut, it doesn't need to be crazy tight. Usually around 30-50lbft but as I said, I don't know what sort of coilovers you have so it may be totally different

I have the older style Cusco coilovers with the partially threaded body, not the fully threaded body like most of today's coilovers on the market. The height is achieved by winding down the spring perches, which drops the spring lower on the threads. The downside of this design is that the shock travel becomes shorter the lower you go, so technically if I wound it down a fraction more it would be like having half a tank of gas all the time because of the reduced travel/movement.

The centre nut on the rear coilovers doesn't become tight no matter what unfortunately. I've read online that I'll need to hold the coilover's top hat down and give it a quick zap with the rattle gun. The centre nut on the front coilovers however goes nice and tight just with a ratchet.

[Lloyd]

Your springs will have the same load on them no matter what, the weight of the car defines that. Moving the springs lower on the body of the strut is why the car sits lower, no other reason.

Shock absorbers do exactly what they say. They don't really have any more load on them when they're fully extended or when they're near on completely compressed. The are there to control the spring from continually bouncing.