Rebuilding 3sge BEAMS + dry sump

[diss7]

Merry Xmas all.

I'm looking into rebuilding the Beams to run some boost. Would like to know if anyone has gone down this path before?

Doesn't seem to be a great deal of info out there on the beams specifically, or a lot of parts available.

Pretty much governed to go with Toda gear from the looks. Some say stock crank is great, others not. Would be nice to just go stroker kit, so I know the crank is new/good.

Head I will probably leave as the cams are big enough.

Will keep the ITB's and make a custom plenum. Will use a Tomei M8270 turbo, that I have laying around from a previous project.

Would like to aim for around 300kw, which is what turbo is aimed at. 9.0CR and 98 Pump if possible.

Motor sits too high in the 86, and after searching, it appears 3sg really should have dry sump. I see Fraser Cars make a kit. Don't want to spend $8k on motor and run dry.

Apparently Caraid built a 3sg beams that was seeing 500hp; and it lasted two seasons of enduro racing. Will go talk to them also.

My car is being setup for drift, and also circuit racing. Altho still street legal, its already a pita on Chch streets - so I will only track it now.

Any advice/comments welcome.

[d1 mule]

talk to simon, he was doing part way through doin this to his one before he sold it.

he knows all the tricks

[diss7]

Yeh man have been, and he does know his stuff for sure

[diss7]

Anyone come across these guys before? Prices seem great, as they're not just parts, but assembled.

http://www.futuremotorsports.com/ENGINE-INTERNALS-copy-9870/

[Al]

Any company that offers this http://www.futuremotorsports.com/STAGE- ... 3SGTE.html I wouldn't piss on to put out a fire.

[Soiled]

I've used Toda pistons, Eagle 3SGTE rods machined to fit this piston, and Todas cams/valve springs to make 275kw. My turbo choice is what held me back from pushing over the 300kw mark.

There are other options more readily available in NZ for pistons now so you don't have to go for Toda anymore (JE, Wiseco) if you wanted to do it cheap talk to Distrb he used supra pistons and machined them to fit.

[diss7]

I've used Toda pistons, Eagle 3SGTE rods machined to fit this piston, and Todas cams/valve springs to make 275kw. My turbo choice is what held me back from pushing over the 300kw mark.

There are other options more readily available in NZ for pistons now so you don't have to go for Toda anymore (JE, Wiseco) if you wanted to do it cheap talk to Distrb he used supra pistons and machined them to fit.

What turboo did you go with? I wasn't planning on doing any head work.

Do you have a dyno graph I could look at?

Thanks.

[Soiled]

Garrett GT2871r .64. Will find a link to a dyno graph for you.

I'd atleast go for heavier springs if you don't want to do much to the head.

[Soiled]

[diss7]

Nice power curve, comes on nice and quick. Gt2871r is a great turbo. Agree that it is near its limit though.

The Tomei M8270 won't spool that quick.

Did you find the stock cams were holding you back? What size are the new cams?

Did you do anything else, other than the pistions/rods/cams/springs?

Thanks.

[Soiled]

Intake 268 with 12mm lift Exhaust 264 with 11mm lift. (can still use vvti with them)

Didn't try the stock cams on this set up but I'd say they would be fine as the head does flow real well. Just the valve springs don't do too well with a decent bit of boost thrown at them.

Just acl bearings and arp studs.

[Celica RA45]

Al did you change your valves at all to steel
corey had a few problems ,even my race 3sge beams uses steel valves
you just dont know when a ti valve will drop its head

[Al]

Pop around to mine for a beer next month sometime diss, Corey still has his turbo charged Altezza, come have a yarn, he will be staying here, not sure when he is next due up from Alex.

[diss7]

Pop around to mine for a beer next month sometime diss, Corey still has his turbo charged Altezza, come have a yarn, he will be staying here, not sure when he is next due up from Alex.

Sounds good mate.

[pureadrenalin]

Guy at my work has just got his ke30 corolla back from STM in wellington.
turbo beams, tomei 2.2 stroker, gt2876 turbo.
I think it was about 277kw. Not sure what boost pressure.

I don't know many more details atm.

[diss7]

Tomei don't make a stoker kit. It would've been a Toda kit.

[diss7]

After a bit of research over the last few days, I've made some purchases.

FYI for anyone else that is looking to rebuild 3s beams

Rods - You can use 3sgte aftermarket rods, but they generally require about 1mm machined either side to mate with a beams piston. Toda rods that are listed for beams, are just stock rods, that are shot-peened. They're not forged, and are bloody dear. I went with Eagle H Beam rods. Lots of rod options really.

Pistons - Not a lot of off the self gear for Beams. Some guys have used 2jzge pistons, but I cbf using them to save $500. Toda make a beams piston, and have 86mm and 87mm bore, CR is about 8.5. I know my bores need honing, so wanted a 86.5mm piston. Was going to get a 87mm item, but came across a deal on altezza forums for custom made CP Pistons 86.5mm 8.5CR, these don't require the rod to be machined down. (The Toda ones would have). Got the Piston and Rods from Nick at Northshore Toyota for under $2k, I think he is going to continually buy/stock these - not sure.

Crank - Not alot of information. Didn't want to go stroker, but did want a new crank. Stock crank is forged, but in extreme street/circuit racing applications, they have failed. Celica RA45 (based in Melb) uses 3sge beams in his race car. He's done a couple of cranks. He ended up getting 10 cranks (Minimum order quantity) Billet 4340 Steel. These aren't cheap, and some would claim unnecessary (if just street - yeh maybe) but I want power and reliability so I got one.

Dry Sump - All the fluff on the net about 3sg's having poor oiling appears to be addressed in the beams. Again, talking to Glenn/Celica RA45, he's still wet sump, 1.5G's in the corners and has no issues.

[CAMB01]

Al did you change your valves at all to steel
corey had a few problems ,even my race 3sge beams uses steel valves
you just dont know when a ti valve will drop its head

People don't realise that titanium valves cant be cleaned like regular valves. They have to be cleaned in an ultra sonic bath. Buffing them causes weaknesses in the neck and causes the heads to drop off.

[Grrrrrrr!]

Dry Sump - All the fluff on the net about 3sg's having poor oiling appears to be addressed in the beams. Again, talking to Glenn/Celica RA45, he's still wet sump, 1.5G's in the corners and has no issues.

The fact his is a North/South install probably helps. Definately a better oreintation than transverse for sustained lateral G. Wouldn't be keen to run a transverse motor at 1.5G lateral on wet sump for too long.

[Distrb]

I had a built motor in my altezza (9.3:1 static comp) running same turbo as soiled with smaller injectors and managed 245kw at 14psi. Stock manual head save for Kelford valve springs. Injectors holding more power back.

Given the info you've found sounds like you've looked in the right places