4A-GE 20v ECU Relearning Process When Pulling EFI Fuse

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4A-GE 20v ECU Relearning Process When Pulling EFI Fuse

Postby Kiwi-Corolla » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:51 pm

I decided to check to see if my 4A-GE 20v Blacktop had any error codes stored in the ECU today by jumping the E1 and TE1 ports in the diagnostic port on the left hand strut tower with a paperclip. Turns out that I had a code 21 and 25, which both relate to the oxygen sensor.

After checking that it was actually plugged in and the connectors were clean, I pulled the 15A EFI fuse from the fusebox in the engine bay for about 30-seconds to clear the codes stored in the ECU. The codes disappeared, so I assume that the car was started prior to the oxygen sensor being plugged in after the engine swap a couple of weeks ago and the codes were never cleared.

I shut the bonnet and took the car for a spin around the block. As soon as I got to about 3,000rpm in 1st gear the car bogged down like crazy and was coughing and spluttering, and changing to 2nd didn't make things any better. I didn't know what the hell was going on so I quickly turned around and went home. Had no codes so decided to reset the ECU again by pulling the EFI fuse.

Went for another drive and had the exact same problem :?. However, this time I decided to hold my foot to the floor and it suddenly roared into life. It got over it's tantrum and starting accelerating like it should do. Accelerating in 2nd gear was still a little sketchy but that soon corrected itself with a heavy plant of my right foot. From there on out it was fine. I went home, parked it up for about 10-minutes, checked once more that the error codes hadn't come back (didn't touch the EFI fuse this time), and then went for one final drive. To my shock, the car was hesitating and stumbling all over again, but fixed itself by me once again giving it full throttle. I went for a good long 20-minute drive, thrashing it's ass off whenever it was safe to do so and didn't have any other problems apart from some slight hesitation in 3rd gear at low rpm when entering the motorway.

It was like the ECU was 'relearning' itself, so curious to know what the hell had just happened I jumped on Google and found a really interesting post on another forum. Figured I'd post it here as other's may find it interesting too. The original post can be viewed here. I take no credit for what is written below.

The 4AGE ECU is a pretty incredible unit and not something most people give due credit to. I've been trying to learn as much as I can about it regarding it's "intelligence" and I thought I'd share what my good friend Nitin has been telling me. Nitin has been working towards getting his mechanics certificate for a while now, and he's one of the few guys that seems to really take to the electronics side of the business as well as the usual pulling wrenches bit.

Here's what I've learned, put into easy to understand terms...
The 4AGE ECU is an adaptive or "learning" unit. The ECU will take the information from the many sensors in the car, match that to the way the car is being driven, and work out the best way for everything to work/fire/run to keep everything as efficient and smooth as possible.

Whenever any engine electrical work is done (moving sensors, making adjustments, etc.) it's always a good idea to reset the ECU. You can do this by either disconnecting the negative terminal from the battery post for a couple minutes (or more depending on how cold the car is), or removing and reinstalling a fuse in the kick panel near the driver's feet. Doing this gives the ECU a chance to forget what it's learned in the past so to speak, and start with a clean slate. If you do this it will seek out fresh readings from all those sensors and use those to make the engine run smoothly, instead of piling the new readings on top of the old bad ones and trying to get a good working operation from the combination.

So that's the engine/sensor side of teaching the ECU. You adjust all the sensors and stuff within spec, then the ECU learns what it needs to automatically. Pretty easy.

But the other part of teaching the ECU comes into play when the car is actually being driven. The ECU will need to know the answers to questions like: How do the sensors react when the car is accelerating? Decelerating? Coasting? What's the best way to manage spark in those situations? What about timing? etc...

When the ECU learns the answers to these questions, it's hoping that YOU the driver will know how to properly train it, which is something I've understood for quite sometime, but never knew exactly HOW I should drive the car so it learns what it needs to in a proper way.

This is what I've been instructed to do:
Find a nice, long, and hopefully deserted road. After getting the car up to normal operating temperature, and after resetting the ECU, drive the car up to 60km/h and then let the car slow down to 30km/h WITHOUT touching the brakes. I assume you should leave the car in gear. Once you hit 30km/h, take the car up to 70km/h and then once again let it slow to 30km/h. Repeat this procedure for 80, 90, and 100km/h. Doing this should give the proper and consistent readings it needs in order to decide how to run the engine in the most efficient way, and apparently this works for most EFI systems used by pre-96 vehicles.
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Postby allencr » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:29 pm

ODB or ODB-II?
This site might be better info then assumptions & WWW gossip.
http://www.autoshop101.com/techarticles ... icles.html
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Postby Kiwi-Corolla » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:36 pm

OBDI. All of the 4A-GE 20v's are OBDI as far as I know. That site has some interesting information but I couldn't find anywhere where it went into detail about the how ECU relearns and how the way the driver's habits affect the tune.
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Postby Grrrrrrr! » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:39 pm

Sounds like a load of BS to me, the only thing the blacktop ECU is likely to learn are closed loop fuel trims and maybe ignition trims. The old toyota ECUs are just not that advanced.

Sounds to me like something is a bit sticky/weak. Maybe the vvt solenoid/system was a bit gummed up?
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Postby iOnic » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:42 pm

4AGE ECU's don't learn anything. They aren't as clever as that post suggests.
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Postby Kiwi-Corolla » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:03 pm

Grrrrrrr! wrote:Sounds like a load of BS to me, the only thing the blacktop ECU is likely to learn are closed loop fuel trims and maybe ignition trims. The old toyota ECUs are just not that advanced.

Sounds to me like something is a bit sticky/weak. Maybe the vvt solenoid/system was a bit gummed up?


Definitely nothing wrong with any other component on the car as the problem I experienced ONLY happened after I pulled out the EFI fuse. The car had been running fine beforehand. I think there's a lot of truth to the Blacktop's ECU relearning and adapting itself to the way the driver treats it, so I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss it as being bullshit ;)

iOnic wrote:4AGE ECU's don't learn anything. They aren't as clever as that post suggests.


This was always going to be a very debatable topic, but the chances of there being more to this appear to be very high. The Blacktop's ECU is a lot more intelligent than that of the earlier Silvertop's.
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Postby Mr Revhead » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:10 pm

I doubt that.
The ecu can self tune to a small degree within factory set parameters.
Are you sure this isn't a case of wanting to believe something rather than.finding the actual truth?
Why does that procedure teach the Ecu? There is nothing in any Toyota literature that details a procedure like that. In factthe only reference to resetting the ecu is actually clearingthe codes
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Postby Kiwi-Corolla » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:19 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:I doubt that.
The ecu can self tune to a small degree within factory set parameters.
Are you sure this isn't a case of wanting to believe something rather than.finding the actual truth?
Why does that procedure teach the Ecu? There is nothing in any Toyota literature that details a procedure like that. In factthe only reference to resetting the ecu is actually clearingthe codes


:lol: Yes, I'm definitely sure that this isn't a case of me wanting to believe something than finding out the actual truth. I was just happy that my car was running properly again, but the issue had me wondering why it happened in the first place and why it miraculously fixed itself by driving it. I know that when we installed a Mine's chipped ECU in my brother's Caldina GT-T that it took about 2-weeks to fully adjust the tune by itself to suit our slightly lower 98 octane gas and his driving style. I've never seen any Toyota literature about the ECU being capable of training itself based on what the sensors are doing, but it's an open subject that everyone can have their own opinion on :)
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Postby Stott69 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:38 pm

In the words of Faux Moulder "the truth is out there"
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Postby Mr Revhead » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:42 pm

Kiwi-Corolla wrote:
Mr Revhead wrote:I doubt that.
The ecu can self tune to a small degree within factory set parameters.
Are you sure this isn't a case of wanting to believe something rather than.finding the actual truth?
Why does that procedure teach the Ecu? There is nothing in any Toyota literature that details a procedure like that. In factthe only reference to resetting the ecu is actually clearingthe codes


:lol: Yes, I'm definitely sure that this isn't a case of me wanting to believe something than finding out the actual truth. I was just happy that my car was running properly again, but the issue had me wondering why it happened in the first place and why it miraculously fixed itself by driving it. I know that when we installed a Mine's chipped ECU in my brother's Caldina GT-T that it took about 2-weeks to fully adjust the tune by itself to suit our slightly lower 98 octane gas and his driving style. I've never seen any Toyota literature about the ECU being capable of training itself based on what the sensors are doing, but it's an open subject that everyone can have their own opinion on :)


I wasn't talking about your car specifically, I was talking about the learning procedure you posted from that site you mentioned :wink:
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Postby gt4dude » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:59 pm

check your fuel filter, rotor and cap and leads

your ecu will only run the car like shit with no codes if something has changed

like the spark or fuel

all its gonna do is run according to its map and apply limited o2 correction and knock-retard
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Postby Al » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:15 am

I pulled the EFI fuse at Ruapuna once in my first MR2. It ran like shit for the first run. Barely scrapped down the track in 14 seconds @ 90 something mph. There was NO power. This is an ECU designed in the '80s as well. Much earlier than a blacktop ecu.

Took it out of the track and gave it beans up and down Hasketts Road a few times and it was back to normal. Ran 12s.
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Postby RomanV » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:31 am

To be honest I wouldnt be surprised if the only noticable 'gains' were that the ECU has a safety mode of sorts when it first starts up, with conservative settings... Rather than 'learning' it's could just be switching over to the 'correct' settings after whatever period of time it deems necessary after first start.

Long term fuel/ignition trim adjustments would likely be pretty hard to notice performance wise past that point I'd imagine.

Unless someone hands out the code for the ECUs, or cracks the code for how they work then all we've got to go by is anecdotal evidence.
Some of which in the first post sounds pretty exaggerated / impossible to discern based on the limited information available.

However a bit of experimenting with an OBD reader and a datalogger would certainly provide a wealth of information one way or the other I guess.

One thing that I've noticed about first start ups (I've got a killswitch for the battery, ecu is completely off when car is not in use for a long time) is that the idle speed control valve doesnt work very well on first start, until it gets an idea of what kind of pulsewidth is required to keep a steady idle.
It would probably be perfectly fine from the start if I had a factory flywheel rather than a light one though, but there is definitely some memory/compensation for that as well.
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Postby Kiwi-Corolla » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:13 pm

I found this link to be quite interesting. It's about OBDII but the chances are that the processes for OBDI are similar:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/engine-man ... cky-32429/

My car is still running weirdly since resetting the ECU. Did a 200km trip to Tauranga yesterday and it's still not quite right. Bogs down at anything under 3,250rpm in most gears and doesn't come right until I apply about 60-70% throttle. Once I get over 3,250rpm it runs perfectly and will only play up intermittently during the drive. Sometimes it's perfectly fine though with no issues, yet other times it does it in every gear. Seems as if it's trying to sort out the way it advances timing in relation to VVT, since once VVT kicks in it seems to be fine....Very weird. Almost like it's an o2 sensor problem, but I'm not getting codes in relation to that anymore. Don't particularly want to pull the EFI fuse again or disconnect the battery cable or else I'll be back to square one.
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Postby iOnic » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:47 pm

Sounds like your ECU is a slow learner
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Postby Kiwi-Corolla » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:58 pm

Yeah, either that or the oxygen sensor is poked afterall and the ECU learned to cope with the bung sensor prior to the reset (would explain the o2 sensor codes earlier). Engine is still under warranty so I'll get them to provide another sensor to see if it fixes it.
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Postby gt4dude » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:15 pm

as far as im aware we dont have obd anything, we have toyota proprietry and our diagnostics box is nothing more than sensor outputs
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