Modifications list for insurers?

cat007 · Post by **cat007** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:36 pm

Hey all

Having just got the Supra running and back on the road, I'm now wanting to get insurance for it but even for third party (not fire and theft), they are wanting a mods list - which seems a bit rich as the car itself won't be insured.

What sort of mods do insurers care about? Do they care that I've painted the porn-star maroon red dash black, or that I have seat covers, or that I have an upgraded turbo, or that I have an aftermarket ECU, or that I have lowered springs but with a cert, etc etc?

I just don't want to give my insurer a massive list of 'mods' when they only care about the basic stuff....

tiny2009 · Post by **tiny2009** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:06 pm

Had a real rough dealing with insurance over this not long ago. Everything that is non standard make sure they know about it. And document what you have told them. Everything from engine mods, wheels etc to basics like aftermarket stereo, shift knob. If they can find a reason not to pay out they will take it.

My experience with this was with one insurance company in particular, I wont name them on here but PM me if you want more details.

cat007 · Post by **cat007** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:12 pm

tiny2009 wrote:Had a real rough dealing with insurance over this not long ago. Everything that is non standard make sure they know about it. And document what you have told them. Everything from engine mods, wheels etc to basics like aftermarket stereo, shift knob. If they can find a reason not to pay out they will take it.

My experience with this was with one insurance company in particular, I wont name them on here but PM me if you want more details.

NAME AND SHAME THEM!

Free speech n all that jazz.

I've sent a list off to my broker. Will see what she comes back with.

What's stopping me from saying it's a hot rod - then nothing is 'standard' ?

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:41 pm

Just be pedantic, list EVERYTHING. Even if you've changed wheelnuts. That way they have nothing to try and get out of paying out if needs be

DeeCee · Post by **DeeCee** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:48 pm

Do the list in a word doc or excel spreadsheet, send them a pdf of the list of mods and keep updating your list. Miss one thing and they can deny your claim.

BZG Wagon · Post by **BZG Wagon** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:12 pm

Surely they could only reject a claim if it contributed to the loss?

I recall studying a case at University where an insurance company denied a claim due to a car having bald tyres. However the court rejected this as the tyres had no bearing or influence on the accident / loss.

You must act in good faith though, which means you have to disclose what you (or any reasonable person) know to the insurance company. And what you tell them must be accurate, and not misleading so the insurance company can properly assess their risk.

So in summary: be upfront and honest, but I doubt your dash would or after market wheel nuts would void a claim unless they were the cause of an accident (otherwise think of how many claims insurance companies would get out of from lock nuts alone).

cat007 · Post by **cat007** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:16 pm

Has anyone tried to get some sort of hot rod style insurance - where you only do less than 5,000km's per year?

I did 700km last year lol

Mr Ree · Post by **Mr Ree** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:21 pm

Classic car do a good deal for low annual km cars.

And they don't treat anyone with a modified car as the devil with a big wallet.

cat007 · Post by **cat007** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:23 pm

Mr Ree wrote:Classic car do a good deal for low annual km cars.

And they don't treat anyone with a modified car as the devil with a big wallet.

Classic car, or Classic Cover?

rollaholic · Post by **rollaholic** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:17 pm

you might be surprised, i have a friend who is semi senior at an insurance company. they have told me in the past they could find grounds to deny 50% + of claims they get, but they dont cos its bad customer service.

as for mods needing to be contributing to the accident to get your claim declined, dont be so sure. from what the above friend has said, if you've got unlisted mods, particularly major ones, and they want to turn you down they'll say that had they known about the mod they would not have insured you in the first place. then they declare your policy void, cancel it, refund whatever premiums you have paid and send you on your way.

Audi · Post by **Audi** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:35 pm

rollaholic wrote:you might be surprised, i have a friend who is semi senior at an insurance company. they have told me in the past they could find grounds to deny 50% + of claims they get, but they dont cos its bad customer service.

as for mods needing to be contributing to the accident to get your claim declined, dont be so sure. from what the above friend has said, if you've got unlisted mods, particularly major ones, and they want to turn you down they'll say that had they known about the mod they would not have insured you in the first place. then they declare your policy void, cancel it, refund whatever premiums you have paid and send you on your way.

They cannot decline your claim if the reason they are using was not directly contributory. That is enshrined in law. It is true though that often there are things in claims that could cause them to be declined that are ignored, if an insurance company gets a rep for not paying out that's not exactly good for business.

They can however do what you said and void your policy but only if you withhold information from them that you can be reasonably expected to have told them. For instance if they ask a standard customer when insurance their car "do you have any modifications?" and they say no, then it turns out they had non-factory mags that they didn't know about (most people have no idea what mags are factory and what aren't) the policy could not be voided for this. However if they ask you and you know you have things you should be telling them about (which you clearly do as evidenced here) and you withhold that, then yeah you could well be voided. So your best bet is to tell them everything you have.

As to why it matters even when it's third party only is because if you have a bog stock car then they assess the risk of you crashing into something else based on this, if you have a heavily modified vehicle that is capable of going much faster and therefore doing more damage then they need to take this into account. That's a simplification but that's the essence of it.

Willdat? · Post by **Willdat?** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:52 pm

Classic cover does some epically good deals, brothers S15 w/RB26 was insured with full cover 8000km/year $400/year when he was 24...admittedly didn't actually need to be paid out!

holden_fan2005 · Post by **holden_fan2005** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:36 pm

You need to be over 25 for classic cover :cry:

stolic · Post by **stolic** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:45 pm

FYI most third party policies contain an "uninsured driver protection". This means they cover damage to your vehicle up to a limit (usually 3-4k) if you are hit by someone who has no insurance at all ( and obviously you give the details to your insurer to seek recovery). Just Another reason they may want to know what they are covering.

It may also be worthwhile getting a valuation on your vehicle too. Sometimes it's not "what" the mods are, but what they are "worth" when compared to the vehicles value. Some insurance companies work on a value as low as 20%. This won't allow for much especially if they use "red book" to get your cars value ( my 98 silvia was $6k on red book, $15k according to independent valuer, red book made my $5k worth of mods look extreme lol)

Also. Most low k's policies are for vintage or classic cars but each company will probably have different views on this so it certainly pays to call around

Good luck

dnalunchie · Post by **dnalunchie** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:26 am

So what happens if you make a claim and they find out you car has a modification that you didn't know about?

Can they refuse to pay or what?

Grrrrrrr! · Post by **Grrrrrrr!** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:00 am

If you genuinely didnt know about it you couldnt declare it, so no, they cant get out of paying. You wouldnt get away with pleading ignorance of the turbo hiding under the bonnet tho.

BZG Wagon · Post by **BZG Wagon** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:41 pm

Totally agree - I think it comes down to the 'reasonable person' test.

I.e. would a reasonable person know a car had forged pistons when they purcahsed it, if they were not told? This is assuming the purchaser is in fact a 'reasonable person' - if they are qualified somehow, then it would be whether a reasonable person with their knowledge & skill would have picked up on it.

In summary
1) Did the insured party act in good faith when declaring mods?
and
2) Would a reasonable person in the same situation have known about the modification in question, in order to declare them?

cat007 · Post by **cat007** » Thu May 02, 2013 4:21 pm

I just went onto that Red Book site - entered my cars details and saw that it was going to cost $16.95 to get the valuation. For a second I thought it valued my car at $16.95 hahahahaha

Sounds about right though