GT86 Impressions.

[RomanV]

Have you actually driven an 86 though?

[2jayzgte]

Have you actually driven an 86 though?

If thats for me no I have'nt.

[Lloyd]

End of the day in most cases the driver runs out of ability before the car does and for me throwing more power at it only will magnefy that fact.

And it didn't in the Supra? Or any other car ever made?

[iOnic]

The trouble with the 86 is that it makes even less power than Toyota claim. Before you worry about overpowering it you first have to get it up to stock specs. I was underwhelmed when I first drove one. I've driven several now and the best was on coilovers with semis from Clevedon to Maraetai/Beachlands then swapped around and did the drive back in my RX8. The extra mechanical grip highlighted the power issue though.

In stock form I think an AE111 is just as good/better unless getting sideways at every corner is your thing

[Mr Revhead]

Toyota have already said they are going front hub electric motors for more performance. Not turbo.

[RomanV]

Heh really? That's pretty cool.

Great way to keep COG low, motors in the wheels haha.

[iOnic]

Subaru have already developed a 300hp FA20 turbo engine and 2014 is meant to bring in an STI BRZ...no word on whether the two will come together or not. There's never been a definite answer there. They're saying the turbo version of the FA20 is meant for the next Legacy and will be bolted to a CVT

Then again, this could be the replacement for the EJ20/25 in the next WRX/STI in which case no chance of it going into a BRZ/86 if its in their flagship.

Would be cool if it happened.

[Grrrrrrr!]

Hub motors? Adding lots of mass to the unsprung. Sounds like a shit idea.

[Mr Revhead]

Not when you consider how much work and development Toyota have done in this area

[Grrrrrrr!]

I have no problem with electric motors.. but just dont mount them in the wheels. They are heavy, and heavy unsprung = shit. Heavy motors at the corners also means high yaw inertia. Mount inboard and use a driveshaft. A 60kw electric motor could get away with a tiny driveshaft, since there is no shock loading (clutch dumps etc) to deal with.

[jondee86]

Although the sales of true muscle cars were relatively modest
by total Detroit production standards, they had value in publicity.
Competition between manufacturers meant that buyers had the choice
of ever-more powerful engines. A horsepower war was started that
peaked in 1970, with some models advertising as much as 450 hp
(336 kW; 456 PS).

Muscle cars attracted young customers into showrooms, and they
bought the standard editions of these mid-size cars. To enhance the
"halo" effect of these models, the manufacturers modified some of
them into turn-key drag racers.

Why does this have a familiar ring ??

Cheers... jondee86

[xsspeed]

I have no problem with electric motors.. but just dont mount them in the wheels. They are heavy, and heavy unsprung = shit. Heavy motors at the corners also means high yaw inertia. Mount inboard and use a driveshaft. A 60kw electric motor could get away with a tiny driveshaft, since there is no shock loading (clutch dumps etc) to deal with.

Except that (assuming it is direct drive) an electric motor has 100% of its torque at 0 rpm

[Grrrrrrr!]

Except that (assuming it is direct drive) an electric motor has 100% of its torque at 0 rpm

which is relevant why?

[xsspeed]

You said no shock loading from clutch dumps, but you actually get all your torque instantaneously out of an electric motor.

[Grrrrrrr!]

Electric motor, makes (say) 400Nm from 0 - 800rpm (wheel rpm). No problem each driveshaft needs to deal with 400Nm to deliver 800Nm total to the wheels. If one wheel slips, tough, that motor gets less power till that wheel gets traction.

IC Engine that makes say 800Nm total output at the diff when accelerating normally, each drive shaft has to be capable of dealing with 800Nm (LSD transfers torque completely to one wheel if the other one has no traction). Except this is still not worst case...

The same engine is lined up at the end of the quarter mile. 5000+rpm and sidestep clutch. Everything on that motor that is spinning goes from 5000rpm to 2000rpm in 0.2s or less. Torque to the driveshaft is several thousand N.m. Driveshaft has to be bloody huge.

And that is why an electric motor would need a tiny shaft compared to a normal driveshaft. There are even more advantages to the electric motor in term of fatigue strength (constant torque vs pulsed torque) and that the electronic controls could be programmed to limit torque if needed.

[rollaholic]

its pretty typically japanese for the car to be on the underpowered side though isint it?

remember they want the thing to have corolla reliability, and coming from the factory adding more power is more than just a bit more tuning - they have to look at the whole driveline to handle the increased torque. that all costs money, which blows your price point out of the water. thats before you even look at the costs of extracting more power while still meeting emission standards / keeping the thing driveable for nana etc.

would it still sell by the bucketload if it was 160kw but cost 60 grand or something? presumably toyota / subaru thought not.

[dnalunchie]

Of course an 80s designed engine isn't going to be very good compared to a new direct injection engine. It probably uses way less fuel to get that power. According to the guy at Crawford performance in the USA the new Subaru engine is way stronger and more efficient than the EJ20. The EJ20 is 21 years old.

When you say the "new subaru engine" do you mean the one in the BRZ/86 because if so I am calling a BS on that, I remember reading an article from one of the engineers/designers stating that the engine (BRZ/86 one) was not designed with enough strength to cope with high levels of boost/power, the current generation of 2ltr sti engines can cope with 300kw atw with full factory internals for extended periods of time/abuse.

I am happy to be corrected but what is the strength you are referring to if not rod/piston?

[Lloyd]

The EJ20s are hardly something you'd call reliable or economic by any stretch of the imagination.

Aren't the FAs running asymmetric conrods and things to get internals lighter while retaining strength, or is it for other reason?

[dnalunchie]

The EJ20s are hardly something you'd call reliable or economic by any stretch of the imagination.

Aren't the FAs running asymmetric conrods and things to get internals lighter while retaining strength, or is it for other reason?

Modern (2000+ single turbo) 2ltr ej20's are pretty reliable and no less economic than any other 90's 2ltr turbo.

[iOnic]

Dunno what the stock block record is but I know of at least one 520hp stock block FA20 in a track car in the states.
Not that the strength really matters. If you're turbocharging, buy forged rods and pistons and do the appropriate mods.