OCC not catching anything?? (with set up pic)

[Tagged]

Hey guys,

I bought an altezza which had an OCC(D1 Spec) in it and today I thought I'd drain it.

But when I opened it up there was absolutely nothing in it. This isn't right is it???

Any1 have any idea where I should be looking at for potential problems??

Thanks

Set up picture:




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just talked to the previous owner, he said if there's absolutely nothing then it means there's no oil back flow. Which means the engine is running on perfect ignition and there's nothing to be worried about and I should be proud lol.

Any1 got a 2nd opinion??

[~SlideWays~]

Hey guys,

I bought an altezza which had an OCC(D1 Spec) in it and today I thought I'd drain it.

But when I opened it up there was absolutely nothing in it. This isn't right is it???

Any1 have any idea where I should be looking at for potential problems??

Thanks

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just talked to the previous owner, he said if there's absolutely nothing then it means there's no oil back flow. Which means the engine is running on perfect ignition and there's nothing to be worried about and I should be proud lol.

Any1 got a 2nd opinion??

Having oil in the catch can is a bad thing so your problem isn't a problem.

EDIT: also 'D1 Spec' means nothing, no more than calling it Alfred the catch can.

[Tagged]

that's good to hear haha, I only put in D1 Spec coz I don't know too much about them so hoping to provide more accurate info. Next time I'll call it Bob

[Kiwi-Corolla]

How have you got it hooked up? I see so many set-ups where the catch can has been hooked up incorrectly and doesn't do anything. There are many differing opinions on how it "should" be done, but in my opinion it should be hooked up between the PCV valve and the intake manifold, essentially acting as a middleman to catch any blow by oil/vapor that would otherwise gum up your intake manifold.

I've had it hooked up that way for years, when I had my old 5A-FE engine and also ever since I did the 4A-GE 20v swap and it definitely catches oil over time. It's normal to have a bit of blow-by, so if the catch can is hooked up correctly it shouldn't stay bone dry for long.

[Mr Ree]

Its also a good idea to fill the can with some steel wool so there is something to baffle the can, and "catch" the oil and condensate vapours, so they can drain to the bottom of the can rather than neing sucked back through your intake system.

[Kiwi-Corolla]

Its also a good idea to fill the can with some steel wool so there is something to baffle the can, and "catch" the oil and condensate vapours, so they can drain to the bottom of the can rather than neing sucked back through your intake system.

+1. I put two bit of "Goldilocks" steel wool inside mine and it condenses any vapor that enters the can into liquid and doesn't allow it to escape back to the intake manifold. Avoid getting the golden coloured steel wool though as over time the colour comes off and exposes the chrome underneath, which makes the oil inside the can go a horrible rusty colour (not really a problem since you're throwing the old oil away but is a bit more mess to clean up). This time I'm around I'm using the chrome wool (same brand) and there's no extra mess. Can be bought from any of the major supermarkets in the cleaning isle.

[Mr Ree]

Whoops, I should have prefaced my comment with "only ever buy the silver, coarse wool" never the thin pot scourers or coated type ^ as shit can get back into your intake that way.

[RomanV]

PCV valve setup works differently depending on what's happening with the engine.

There are two paths the fumes can take, one with restriction (PCV valve) or the other with no restriction.

At idle, crank case gases generate positive pressure.
Intake manifold generates vaccum.
The PCV valve regulates how much positive pressure crank case gas can enter the intake manifold, to avoid free revving the motor by supplying too much air. If this generates vaccum in the crank case, fresh filtered air is drawn in through the second hose from ahead of the throttle body.
This is a good thing, and doesnt happen if you dont have your PCV valve connected to the intake anymore.

At full throttle, crank case gases generate positive pressure.
Intake manifold creates minimal vaccum. (or positive pressure for forced induction motors)
So the Fumes take the path of least resistance, and exit the non PCV valve pipe. Going the opposite direction to the above scenario.
In the case of turbo, PCV valve prevents boost from filling back into the crank case.

Either way you look at it, having just one hose or the other connected to the can does not deal with the different scenarios. Having both pipes connected to the intake via seperate circuits is still the best scenario.

You may very well catch vapours and what not while at strong vaccum in the intake manifold, but isnt the idea to reduce potential detonation etc while under high load?

Also some/most modern motors have a heavily baffled cam cover which acts like an internal catch can. Not necessarily necessary anyway I guess.

[Tagged]

I had a look into the hoses that goes both in and out of the OCC, both clean. not a single trace of oil or any liquid.... I'll post up a picture of the set up tmr if I remember. Hope it isn't hooked up the wrong way...

[Tagged]

PCV valve setup works differently depending on what's happening with the engine.......

I read this once every night before I go to bed. However my limited knowledge prevents me from understanding it fully D:

Time to study a bit more haha.

Anyways, any one had a look a the picture I posted up top??

From my minimal understanding, there's a hose connecting the engine to the intake, which is used to direct gas fume back to the intake, and be re-ignited in the engine. Therefore putting the OCC in the middle of this hose, will result in the gas fume being caught by the can instead of going into intake and back into the engine, and this is what's going on under my bonnet I believe??

Correct me if I got anything wrong

[Kiwi-Corolla]

^ Close, but not quite. The way you've currently got it hooked up isn't allowing it to catch any oil whatsoever since it's hooked up to the breather for the crankcase rather than the PCV valve.

The PVC valve is the hose next to the one it's currently hooked up to on your rocker cover (hidden by the strut brace in your photo). You want one hose to go from the PCV valve to the catch can and the other hose to go from the intake manifold to the catch can. This way the blow-by oil will get sucked through with the vacuum in the intake manifold.

See this photo as an example (excuse my terrible drawing, lol). The hose directly between the intake manifold runners is the one where you want each end of your catch can hoses to go to. So essentially the set-up will be like the factory one, except the catch can is acting as the middleman.

[RomanV]

Okay well a few things to note...

The beams motor has an internal catch can, built into the top of the motor already. So congrats! Your engine has been effectively dealing with the problem already for a decade or longer

As per Kiwicorolla's diagram, if you want it to do anything need it to run inline with one of thethe existing hose configurations.

If you want it to catch gases at idle/low load: PCV valve line.
If at high rpm/full throttle: The one leading ahead of the throttle body.

If you wanted to effectively catch the gases under all scenarios you'd need two catch cans, plumbed into each of the two standard lines.

So TL;DR: Why even bother with the pointless maintenance task of emptying the can, when the problem is already sorted from factory?
You're just introducing the possibility of having the can fill up, and then sucking/blowing a bunch of water and oil into your intake all at once.

[Tagged]

^ Close, but not quite. The way you've currently got it hooked....

ohhh I see! thanks a lot for the info!! Love that red catch can btw

[Tagged]

Okay well a few things to note...

hmmm so how does the factory built-in catch can work? I mean, does it not need draining like after market OCCs??

and for my current set up, if I connect the hose to PCV(where it should have been connected to), and drive like a mad man with full throttle all day I will start catching oil in no time?? (this part is just sorting out my understanding, I'm not actually gonna do it lol)

and thank you for your reply! now I know that OCC is purely cosmetic... Time to pull it out and use it for beer

[RomanV]

In some engines, the pipes that come from the top of the engine just gather fumes etc into more or less an open space above the cams. (or with baffling that isnt overly effective)

So oil flying around, oil vapours, fumes, whatever, is free to travel out the pipes more or less unimpeded. At high rpms can sometimes cause the engine to smoke, if lots of oil accumulates in the head and ends up going through the pipes, into the intake. Which is not good for the motor, not good for emissions, not good for much of anything. In this scenario, a catch can solves that problem. But if you're not having this problem, a catch can is just more complexity and junk in your engine bay that's not doing anything apart from contributing to possible failures.

On the beams motor, it has several baffles which make the gas/oil do about 3 passes back and forth, before it gets to the top of the cam cover where the hoses/pipes connect to.So all(well, most) of the oil drains back down, before it even gets to the pipes.

Catch cans have their place, but a correctly working PCV system as per factory is far better in your case. If it were me, I'd just reconnect the hoses as per factory.

[Tagged]

In some engines, the pipes that come from the top of the engine just gather fumes etc into more or less an open space above the cams. (or with baffling that isnt overly effective)

So oil flying around, oil vapours, fumes, whatever, is free to travel out the pipes more or less unimpeded. At high rpms can sometimes cause the engine to smoke, if lots of oil accumulates in the head and ends up going through the pipes, into the intake. Which is not good for the motor, not good for emissions, not good for much of anything. In this scenario, a catch can solves that problem. But if you're not having this problem, a catch can is just more complexity and junk in your engine bay that's not doing anything apart from contributing to possible failures.

On the beams motor, it has several baffles which make the gas/oil do about 3 passes back and forth, before it gets to the top of the cam cover where the hoses/pipes connect to.So all(well, most) of the oil drains back down, before it even gets to the pipes.

Catch cans have their place, but a correctly working PCV system as per factory is far better in your case. If it were me, I'd just reconnect the hoses as per factory.

cheers bud! that sounds good haha, especially when the OCC is only hanging there by cable ties...