Rowland MT36 Intake Manifold...

[jondee86]

Some time ago I remember reading a writeup on the "new" Rowland
(South Africa) MT36 cast manifold for adapting AE101 ITB's to the 16V
smallport head. There is no mention of it on the Rowland website, and
the mighty interweb has failed to produce any pictures.

Does anyone happen to have a pic, or a link to the article in question ?

Cheers... jondee86

[atmosports]

I'll have a look through all my photos over the weekend as I might have something. From memory it was a normal 4AGE 16V side draft manifold then with side draft to 20V thottlebody adaptors, I don't think it was an all in one manifold but might be wrong when I look back through the photo's as at some stage I took photos of that setup. Plenty of options out there to convert a side draft 16V manifold to run 20v ITB's as well.

[jondee86]

Hey thanks for the reply. As it happens I emailed Rowlands last night
and they came straight back with some pics. It is a one-piece item and
as you say, adapted from one of their twin DCOE manifolds. Bit on the
agricultural side, but looks as so it would do the job.

Would still be interested in a link to the writeup if anyone comes across
it while surfing around

Cheers... jondee86

[Dell'Orto]

T3 one no good?

[atmosports]

Been through all my photo's but haven't got that manifold/adapter setup in the one photo & loking through stuff here I haven't got all the bits to put one together for a photo either. I'd go with the T3 one for looks, else there are plenty of companies that make various adapter plates to suit side draft etc manifolds so you could also go that way. Previously for other stuff I've welded a plate onto a side draft manifold, then drilled/tapped/cut from there to get what I want, amazing with a big of cutting & welding what a 4age or 3sge manifold fits onto.

[jondee86]

Here it is....



The T3 adapter looks clever, but it puts the throttles upside down (which
I don't want) and it needs porting inside. Eyeballing this one from Rowlands,
it looks like there could be more space between the centre two throttles
than there is between the outside ones. Thats a DCOE detail that would not
work with stock AE101 linkages. And figuring out how to keep the TPS
away from the top water outlet is a problem...

So really just toying with a few ideas at the moment...

Cheers... jondee86

[touge_ae101]

How about just making your own one? I've got all the drawings for the port shapes for standard throttle body positions etc just let me know the length runners you want. I can draw it up and I've got a mate with a CNC who wants to get into making this kind of stuff so could look into a price for you.

[QikStarlie]

upside down works, tps ends up at the back so no water pipe drama. if you want to get super picky, modified blacktop throttles and custom manifold is the go. that way can run a small taper over the whole runner. with smallport head

[jondee86]

I already have this on a smallport head....



What I would like to do is swap the head for a bigport one and change
everything over. I don't like the bigport>smallport adapter plates as they
mess with the flow, so hence looking for another solution.

This above setup is on a custom tube manifold I made, and I could do
the same for the bigport, but it is a crapload of messing about for not
much gain. So maybe I'll just use the bigport single throttle manifold...
at least that makes it easy to fab a cold air box

Cheers... jondee86

[QikStarlie]

how come you are swapping to a bigport head? unless you have a proven modified bigport head. seems like you will be going backwards over current setup?

bigport to smallport adapter isn't going to be that much different, than a complete new itb to bigport manifold. still gong to have reverse taper, just over a longer area.

[jondee86]

That's the problem I've got this bigport head in the shed....





... that I've been storing for more than 15 years, and it has never been used
So I figure if I can bolt it to my high comp block, and swap over all the stuff I am
currently using on the smallport head, I can get a nice comparison. I even have
the TVIS plate and could hook that up if I use the RWD manifold. Seems a shame
to have the head lying round and not give it a whirl... hence the wondering

Cheers... jondee86

[evil_si]

If your interested i make fabricated adaptors,

i can set them up to suit each application, throttle body rotation, angle, distances etc

https://www.facebook.com/MAX.Fabrication/posts/565846443496302

Cheers
Simon

[jondee86]

If your interested i make fabricated adaptors...

Probably the best solution, as my ITB setup is based on right way up, and
it would be a lot of hassle to change them to upside down. Is there a known
solution to the TPS/water outlet interference issue ? Just make the tubes
long enough ? Angle them up ? Offset the ITB flange rearwards ?

On my smallport manifold I made the tubes a bit longer and curved them
with a pipe bender, and by pure luck the TPS clears the water pipe nicely

Cheers... jondee86

[QikStarlie]

ah yeh makes sense. although i still think you'd be better off selling the bigport head, and spending the cash on the smallport.

[evil_si]

Havent encountered anyissues with the water pipe,
I usually have a 17 degree angle upwards and overall length of about 75mm

Last couple of setups have been for AE86's one was in chch so i made an adjustable jig, sent it down so he could get the best angle etc to suit, then he just sent it back up and i worked to that

[jondee86]

ah yeh makes sense. although i still think you'd be better off selling the
bigport head, and spending the cash on the smallport.

I've been trying to get some solid info on how much compression you can
safely run on a smallport... but there are a lot of conflicting opinions
I was hoping that I could pop some nice 12:1 CP pistons in with a bit of
a cleanup to the combustion chambers... use a standard head gasket and
finish up with around 11.5:1 running on 98. Maybe some ARP rod bolts
and redline it at 8500... sound do-able ??

I'd still be using your cams... just looking for a bit more snap crackle and
pop out of the engine I've got a spare long block, so if 11.5:1 or 12:1 is
realistic on pump gas... yeah, I'd be prepared to let the head go and put
the money into the smallport.

Cheers... jondee86

[QikStarlie]

will work easy on that compression. i run 11.5 toda pistons. with a .8mm trd gasket and .5mm head skim. but has a little taken out of the chambers from de-shielding the valves. works out roughly somewhere between 12.5 & 13:1. ran on gull 98 with factory cams no worries, had to run a little less timing than normal at low rpm, but nothing to negatively effect the power much. was able to get it back up there, once went to the 193b cams. probably could get away with even higher with the cams tbh.

8500rpm is fine also. mine is fairly simple setup. silvertop block with the toda pistons. arp rod bolts and full balance. rest factory parts. has been rev limited to 8900rpm for around 20,000k i guess. it sees that kind of rpm alot.. my turbo engine runs the same setup but ze pistons. sees same rpm.

its making more power with 193b kelfords than it did with the big 193d's. only changes were the porting. new inlet manifold and blactop itb (was slivertop). so some good head porting is well worth doing. got some more details on what i done, cant remember if ive shown you or not?

[jondee86]

So some good head porting is well worth doing. Got some more details on
what i done, cant remember if ive shown you or not?

Sounds like a plan Let me know what you had done, and I'll ask around to
see who is recommended for porting in Wellington... I'm a bit out of touch.
But since I have a complete unopened low km's smallport longblock, I have
the option of sending the head or the complete longblock to an engine builder.

I'm not really chasing peak power, more a strong midrange that does not fade
much at the top end. I was thinking of the 193b's but the 272's that you sold
me would be close enough. Bore to the first oversize with pistons as below on
factory rods, OEM head gasket, new bearings throughout, full balance, and stay
with the ST ITB setup.



These are said to be the CP SC7653 12:1 forgies. 81.5 with 20 dia pin to suit the
smallport 4AGE engine. It would be nice if I could get them with smaller valve
pockets, and I like the fact that they don't have the peak on top that Wisco and
some other brands have... and they can be had ex the States for not much money.

Oh... and I have a reduction starter tucked away just in case

Cheers... jondee86

[QikStarlie]

im sure someone in the head porting game could get alot more out of it. but im pretty happy with the results for a diy job.
http://garage4ag.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/head/

if you start reading from about here, is the results i've had and 193b cam setup.
http://oldschool.co.nz/2011/forum/index ... try1143172

still haven't dyno'd it with the cams. but at the drags was doing 162km vs 160km on the old big cam setup. (13.8 vs 14.0)

those pistons look fairly similar design to the toda pistons. the bigger valve cutouts are definitely helpful. i had drama with valves contacting the side of the valve cutout, on stock smallport pistons. when retarding the exhaust cam. the way the valves project into the cylinder with more lift makes the valve clip the side, rather than going into the pocket.

[jondee86]

Awesome read Did those 193B's fit without having to clearance
the head for the intake lobes ? I don't want to go above 8500 redline,
so if they want to keep pulling to somewhere north of 9000 they
might be a bit more than I need right now.

I think the Toda pistons are a bit pricey, but I remember seeing a good
deal somewhere for the CP's and some generic forged rods. Have to
see if I can find it again and do some sums.

Cheers... jondee86