DS2500 vs DS3000 vs something else brake pads?

[touge_ae101]

Wilwood are now doing a 5-port brake bias adjuster to work with a standard master cylinder and standard lines (I'm assuming supras have two lines running to the rear)

[Mr Ree]

Im not sure about the A70's, but with the A80's, unless my memory is failing me, the series one and two chassis differ in that regard, with the former having four channel ABS with 2 lines to the rear, and the latter just 1.

[1I1]

I could also improve the rotor I use but I personally think again as stated above.If you have a look at the 60Cuba setup they run dual BMC's with ducting and have very few issue's with the factory rotors as they have dialed more rear end bias on and at 1500kg and 400+ KW car and they have the ability to run all day only suggests to me is what my guys who look after my car have been saying all along that using more rear brake and directing the bias to the back is probably the way foward.

Have you considered using a more aggressive pad in the back of your Supra Coryn? Did I read somewhere you use the TRD Black rear pads? They are good pads, but it's a lot easier to try a different pad than re-doing brake lines and adding a proportioning valve.

[cat007]

I'd also be keen to find out about pads with a lot more bite for the rear.

My front bias is a little too strong as I'm always locking the fronts in the wet...

[Mr Ree]

What tyres are on it? A brake system is only as strong as the tyres it is wearing

[2jayzgte]

I could also improve the rotor I use but I personally think again as stated above.If you have a look at the 60Cuba setup they run dual BMC's with ducting and have very few issue's with the factory rotors as they have dialed more rear end bias on and at 1500kg and 400+ KW car and they have the ability to run all day only suggests to me is what my guys who look after my car have been saying all along that using more rear brake and directing the bias to the back is probably the way foward.

Have you considered using a more aggressive pad in the back of your Supra Coryn? Did I read somewhere you use the TRD Black rear pads? They are good pads, but it's a lot easier to try a different pad than re-doing brake lines and adding a proportioning valve.

Been there Mark done that.

Here's the list.

Brake ducting

Different brake pads Hawk HP plus HT-10s TRD Reds in the front Blacks in the rear Ferrodo DS 3000's the latter feared better but its because I was using road tyres.

OEM & TRD rotors smashed both {Thinking about upgrading don't want to do it until I can get the front rotor temps below 650 deg.C}

Titanium Shims {US BS they were a waste of $$$$$}

Boiling fluid have used Motul RBF 600 660 2 types of AP Racing fluid.

The caveat to all this is slicks they just open another world of issues as basically as you no my cars is a road car and now with the extra grip of slicks the envelope has moved and here in lies the issue in my eyes slicks are just alot harder on the car and hence why the above is happening.

The reason I am heading in that direction is I have it on good authority from guys who have been race prepping cars for about 25 years that this is the way foward.

Secondly the 60Cuba Supra have done pretty much the same thing but have a dual BMC setup but it works and they don't kill pads & rotors like I do and basically it all centers on dialing in more rear brake.

I would have done the brake proportioning valve mod ages ago but I don't no if its legal or not for the road.

[Mr Ree]

You destroyed your front rotors at Taupo, and that was on road tyres.

While the slicks contribute to better braking and more heat, Slicks arent to blame, the brake pads/rotors getting overheated to the point where their wear is accelerated exponentially, is to blame.

Keep everything cool enough, and slicks will be fine.

[cat007]

Been there Mark done that.

Here's the list.

Secondly the 60Cuba Supra have done pretty much the same thing but have a dual BMC setup but it works and they don't kill pads & rotors like I do and basically it all centers on dialing in more rear brake.

I would have done the brake proportioning valve mod ages ago but I don't no if its legal or not for the road.

Is there a build page for this 60Cuba Supra anywhere? I can't seem to find anything interesting on it except for some youtube videos from a couple of years ago....

[2jayzgte]

You destroyed your front rotors at Taupo, and that was on road tyres.

While the slicks contribute to better braking and more heat, Slicks arent to blame, the brake pads/rotors getting overheated to the point where their wear is accelerated exponentially, is to blame.

Keep everything cool enough, and slicks will be fine.

They are to blame because I'm asking the car's systems to do what they weren't designed to do.

I push the car harder and parts reach there limits accordingly.While we have a head start originally from Toyota I don't think the car was designed to run with that sought of tyre in mind.

Keep them in the correct heat range have a look at the list do you not think I have'nt tried over the years TBH a few times I've thought about throwing in the towel.

But have come to the realisation that at the end of the day my car is a ROAD car not a race car hence why I tried to stay away from race car solutions.

[cat007]

What tyres are on it? A brake system is only as strong as the tyres it is wearing

Are you asking me?

I'm using TOYO T1R's on the front and cheapie no name rears...

[Mr Ree]

You destroyed your front rotors at Taupo, and that was on road tyres.

While the slicks contribute to better braking and more heat, Slicks arent to blame, the brake pads/rotors getting overheated to the point where their wear is accelerated exponentially, is to blame.

Keep everything cool enough, and slicks will be fine.

They are to blame because I'm asking the car's systems to do what they weren't designed to do.

I push the car harder and parts reach there limits accordingly.While we have a head start originally from Toyota I don't think the car was designed to run with that sought of tyre in mind.

Keep them in the correct heat range have a look at the list do you not think I have'nt tried over the years TBH a few times I've thought about throwing in the towel.

But have come to the realisation that at the end of the day my car is a ROAD car not a race car hence why I tried to stay away from race car solutions.

I know you have tried multiple pad compounds over the years, but clearly, you are still generating too much heat in the system, thus you see the rediculous levels of wear, that keep costing you big $$ every track day to replace rotors etc

The fact is that if you can keep your brake systems heat under control, you wouldnt suffer from the same rotor and pad wear, regardless of brake bias setup.

The way I see it, you have two real choices...a better ducting setup while employing water cooling, or brake bias adjustment.

Both will help alot, but keep in mind that the former is road legal, and the second is'nt.

If you decide you dont want to add the proportioning valve, we should just both build up a kit for water cooled brakes, and not look back

[Grrrrrrr!]

As a cheap intermediate step.. how about a spare windscreen washer bottle hooked up to the brake lights set up to spray a fine mist of water onto the discs/calipers when on track. Top up the washer bottle between sessions.

[cat007]

As a cheap intermediate step.. how about a spare windscreen washer bottle hooked up to the brake lights set up to spray a fine mist of water onto the discs/calipers when on track. Top up the washer bottle between sessions.

That sounds like it could be cracked rotor central?

[Mr Ree]

You dont want to spray water directly onto the rotor face.

The best way for all rotor cooling to be achieved is through air, or air and water being forced through the centre of the rotor, so it can pass across all the vanes, to get the most even cooling.

However, the brake pedal switch can be used to tell the timer when to turn on, so it sprays water after every heavy braking event etc

[Grrrrrrr!]

Not if its a mist. Its just a better cooling fluid than dry air.

It what the v8 supercar boys do to stop them from cooking their brakes. They have a fancy control system using sensors and their datalogging system, but nothing wrong with just using the brake switch if you can store enough water to get thru a session. They aren't allowed water cooled calipers and no way they can survive street races like surfers with the brakes they are allowed to use without it.

Pictures of a V8 super car water tank for the brakes in this thread and some discussion.
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/41533-water-cooled-mist-brakes/

[Grrrrrrr!]

You dont want to spray water directly onto the rotor face.

It wont be water once it touches the rotor, it'll instantly vapourise. And if the droplet size is small enough you shouldn't get any noticeable erosion of the rotors. Not that you'd notice compared to the rate he is apparently eating rotors as it is.

The best way for all rotor cooling to be achieved is through air, or air and water being forced through the centre of the rotor, so it can pass across all the vanes, to get the most even cooling.

One nozzle per side to keep the cooling even.

[Mr Ree]

You dont want to spray water directly onto the rotor face.

It wont be water once it touches the rotor, it'll instantly vapourise. And if the droplet size is small enough you shouldn't get any noticeable erosion of the rotors. Not that you'd notice compared to the rate he is apparently eating rotors as it is.

The best way for all rotor cooling to be achieved is through air, or air and water being forced through the centre of the rotor, so it can pass across all the vanes, to get the most even cooling.

One nozzle per side to keep the cooling even.

I understand that the water will evaporate before touching the rotor face, but with that being said, its still far better to spray the water into the centre of the rotor.

I love the old V8 supercar setup, it is what inspired me to do something similar with my own car. Obviously not as complex, as I wont be using datalogging, but still designed to do the same job, albeit somewhat more crude lol.

I dont run out of brakes at Manfeild, or Taupo, but I have a strong feeling that HD will find the limit of my setup, so Im planning to have the water spray system installed before I hit that track

[2jayzgte]

You destroyed your front rotors at Taupo, and that was on road tyres.

While the slicks contribute to better braking and more heat, Slicks arent to blame, the brake pads/rotors getting overheated to the point where their wear is accelerated exponentially, is to blame.

Keep everything cool enough, and slicks will be fine.

They are to blame because I'm asking the car's systems to do what they weren't designed to do.

I push the car harder and parts reach there limits accordingly.While we have a head start originally from Toyota I don't think the car was designed to run with that sought of tyre in mind.

Keep them in the correct heat range have a look at the list do you not think I have'nt tried over the years TBH a few times I've thought about throwing in the towel.

But have come to the realisation that at the end of the day my car is a ROAD car not a race car hence why I tried to stay away from race car solutions.

I know you have tried multiple pad compounds over the years, but clearly, you are still generating too much heat in the system, thus you see the rediculous levels of wear, that keep costing you big $$ every track day to replace rotors etc

The fact is that if you can keep your brake systems heat under control, you wouldnt suffer from the same rotor and pad wear, regardless of brake bias setup.

The way I see it, you have two real choices...a better ducting setup while employing water cooling, or brake bias adjustment.

Both will help alot, but keep in mind that the former is road legal, and the second is'nt.

If you decide you dont want to add the proportioning valve, we should just both build up a kit for water cooled brakes, and not look back

But thats what I'm doing by changing the bias I'm asking the front brakes to do less.Thats my whole aim to stop the car nose diving in the front and having all that weight nose diving over the front axle.

You be the guinea pig for the water sprayer option see how you go.

I think I'll be going the 60Cuba route and try and get the back brakes working more.

PS this year on road tyres I only caked 1 rotor I also had a look at pads I used last year on slicks vs the pads I used this year and they had a lot harder time last year with basically the same amount of laps.Also last year rotor wise when using slicks I heat cracked slotted TRD rotors in 4 places on both left & right fronts vs the 1 heat crack this year in the left front.Also fluid used AP racing fluid this year no bleed required during the day last year boiled the same fluid so had to bleed during the day.

So in my experience the use of Slicks is alot harder on the car than that of road tyres or semi's.

[2jayzgte]

Wilwood are now doing a 5-port brake bias adjuster to work with a standard master cylinder and standard lines (I'm assuming supras have two lines running to the rear)

Thats interesting will have a look at that as an option cheers.

[2jayzgte]

Been there Mark done that.

Here's the list.

Secondly the 60Cuba Supra have done pretty much the same thing but have a dual BMC setup but it works and they don't kill pads & rotors like I do and basically it all centers on dialing in more rear brake.

I would have done the brake proportioning valve mod ages ago but I don't no if its legal or not for the road.

Is there a build page for this 60Cuba Supra anywhere? I can't seem to find anything interesting on it except for some youtube videos from a couple of years ago....

No build page mate its just a guy whose owned Supra's since the 1980's is all i'd call him the Godfather as over the years he's probably owned a min of 20 or them at one stage about 3-4 years ago he had 3 Supra racecars and 2 MINT 6-speeds parked on his front lawn.Now he only has 2 Supra race cars.