Wanting info on Hydrogen engine conversion

[sergei]

Also, if you burn something, you could do it slower, faster, even extremely fast with assist of catalyst, but at the end of the day it will produce same amount of energy which ever way you burn.

[fivebob]

When discussing first law you dont think about the fact that burning the hydrogen in the combustion process increases the effeciency of the petrol.

Have you got proof that 0.05% H2 improves combustion efficiency? Without changes to the engine mapping then you will get no benefit, the ECU will still supply the same amount of fuel. To get a benefit of a lean burn Hydrogen assisted engine you need a lot more H2 than you'll get from these systems

So you put in saw 5 watts of energy into producing the hydrogen, and you get 4 watts of combustable hydrogen out of the process. But by burning the hydrogen in the combustion process you increase the effeciency of the unburnt petrol by say 1 - 2% that will more then make up for the power lost generating the hydrogen and then some (btw 5 watts is an example)

Like people have said before you arnt getting free energy but you are getting energy that would normally be wasted.

Got any proof of that theory???

How are you going to get 1-2% improved efficiency without changing the fuelling, and how is 0.05% of H2 going to give you that improvement.

It's all very well postulating that you might get this improvement, but there is no proof that these scams give you any improvement. They've been around for decades, surely there would be heaps of scientific studies that prove their claims. I can't find one, perhaps you might have better luck. If so I await with anticipation the links to these scientific studies

[Trls250s]

Those numbers were only theoretical and i was only saying for the sake of saying that it could be possible if this were the case.

I said earlier that i didnt really believe in what was going on but was interested in building one just to try as im more hands on instead of crunching numbers, and the only way i could justify it to myself as to why it would work is what i stated before.

[Capin-Neemo]

Anyone had a look at this its simple and viable!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectrochemical_cell

[barryogen]

its simple and viable!

not fast enough.
Park... wait... wait... wait... wait... enough energy to drive .1km, rinse and repeat.

[Capin-Neemo]

Hello you have this setup as a fuel station and just fill up you car as you would with petrol it makes perfect sence the staion makes its own gas from water sunlight and a catalyst and wala hydrogen all ya need is infurstructure and in a country like new zealand thats simple!

We just need to wake up and realise that petrol is going to be gone very soon and Nz is the perfect place to be oil free but alas old habits die hard!

[MAGN1T]

Also, if you burn something, you could do it slower, faster, even extremely fast with assist of catalyst, but at the end of the day it will produce same amount of energy which ever way you burn.

It's very rare to get complete combustion.

There's normally some sort of equilibrium between the start products and the finish products.

A catalyst can change the equilibrium and so change the energy liberated..

Steve

[sergei]

Also, if you burn something, you could do it slower, faster, even extremely fast with assist of catalyst, but at the end of the day it will produce same amount of energy which ever way you burn.

It's very rare to get complete combustion.

There's normally some sort of equilibrium between the start products and the finish products.

A catalyst can change the equilibrium and so change the energy liberated..

Steve

Right, and what sort of ratio of unburned fuel do you think comes out of tail pipe? You don't now? Look at the current emission standards for CO and HC percentages to put in perspective of how much is actually unburned.

Say in a good running engine , I would expect to have ~7g/km of CO and ~2g/km of HC, lets just say total of emissions would be 10g/km for ease of calculation, that would be 10g per 100g of fuel (saying that the car consumes ~10L/100Km which is more or less true for the average car in city driving, of course this is rough calculation). That is 10% of incomplete burned hydrocarbons. Note here incomplete, you still get energy reducing hydrocarbon to CO, and HC emissions.
Also note most of the emissions come from the fuel deposited on the walls of of the combustion chamber/cylinder, so can you please explain how brown gas helps with burning cold fuel stuck to the walls? And also how much do you believe the brown gas reduces emissions? If it does not reduce emissions (which is easy to prove especially compliance centres are now equipped with gas analysers), it means it does not actually work...

[sergei]

Also found some more stats:
Petrol ~34MJ/L
Hydrogen(liquid) ~9MJ/L.

[Capin-Neemo]

Those figures are for liquids do you think you burn fuel as i liquid in am cylinder it is as atomised as it posiblly can be has anyone taken into consideration they are already running hydrogen in public cars in some parts of europe and they are having very few problemsmand with emmisions that are water and oxagen how can ya go wrong!

It all in the setting up of infurstruture i tells ya thats the govenments play itsw in their hands what fuel we use form now on!

[sergei]

Those figures are for liquids do you think you burn fuel as i liquid in am cylinder it is as atomised as it posiblly can be has anyone taken into consideration they are already running hydrogen in public cars in some parts of europe and they are having very few problemsmand with emmisions that are water and oxagen how can ya go wrong!

It all in the setting up of infurstruture i tells ya thats the govenments play itsw in their hands what fuel we use form now on!

Just think little bit what you said.









Now, think again, in which state Hydrogen is denser?





Now what will have higher energy density liquid hydrogen or in gas state at 1 bar?

[sergei]

Hydrogen got one huge problem - keeping it in dense state, you have to have cryotank to store it in that state (hence foam and helium cooling on space rockets).

[MAGN1T]

There's certain things that Hydrogen will dissolve in , under pressure..... just like acetylene in acetone or whatever they use?

Time for another wind up.

Cranked up the unit last night to check resitances etc. If you build one of these i warn you, this sucker can sure draw some power. Sitting still my unit is 150 Ohms, but under operating conditions (as the reaction builds in the water) it goes down to 1 Ohm ~ 1/2 Ohm, My unit was drawing 12 Amps at 12.1 volts from my battery.

Was having a think about this.... Most of the power loss is because you're only using about 2.4 volts, the rest is wasted as heat via current (the reverse of a battery(cell).

It would also be better to use lots of plates to increase surface area.
To increase efficiency you'd put 5 of these things in series, so as not to waste current.

Bit like a car battery.

So why not start off with a car battery, a dud one, and reduce it from 6 cells to 5 by shorting one out. You'd just need to seal it and at the same time allow for topping up of the water.

Saves re inventing another wheel.

Steve