2012 Formula One

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:51 pm

It was YOU!!!! :evil:

You jinxed him!!

Quite a mixed result there.
Red Bull, wtf.. Pit, dont pit, STOP THE CAR!!

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:53 pm

fivebob wrote:
Mr Revhead wrote:Referring to my issue swith vipbox last week. It's seems after race start they kill the website. If you are on the stream already it's fine. But if you are not bad luck!

Don't think so, I joined the stream about 10mins into the race last week.

Hmm weird. It wouldn't work for me. And I noticed that soon after the start the page with all the links on it died and wouldn't restart. Same as I had last week.
Oh well, still watched it all

thornz · Post by **thornz** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:45 am

Mr Revhead wrote:It was YOU!!!! You jinxed him!!

Quite a mixed result there.
Red Bull, wtf.. Pit, dont pit, STOP THE CAR!!

My Bad!

Was gutted when he ran wide, so wanted to see Sauber grab a win, especially beating Ferrari with there own engine :lol:

Do actually wonder though if he was going to have a crack at Alonso after that radio message saying that they need P2. Great race though, always good to see some mixed up results within the season.

2jayzgte · Post by **2jayzgte** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:57 pm

Just wondering what everyones beat on Ferrari is to me they don't have the car to win the championship and this was a one off type deal much like what Alonso did at Silverstone last year.Massa to me is a goner they are talking Perez as the next guy who actually looked really good last season and is carrying on his promise.

But back to Ferrari have they lost alot of there design team or something because this is another year they have turned out a car that really as above can't compete with Mclaren or RBR on a consistent basis and now with the emergence of Lotus/Renault and Sauber they look there could be a real battle for that 3rd spot.

On a sidenote its good to see Raikkonen back competitive and with the emergence of another guy like Perez who looks like the goods to me it does look like a interesting season ahead.

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:29 pm

Well, when was the last time Ferrari had a car that was on the ball right from the first race? Been a few seasons now.

Massa.... I'm not going to say it will happen, but I won't be surprised if he is not in that car at the last race.

2jayzgte · Post by **2jayzgte** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:44 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:Well, when was the last time Ferrari had a car that was on the ball right from the first race? Been a few seasons now.

Massa.... I'm not going to say it will happen, but I won't be surprised if he is not in that car at the last race.

Thats my question mate I don't get it they have the resources experience hence why I wonder if they have lost alot of good design people to other teams thats the only thing it could be surely.

I know they had trouble with there wind tunnel a couple of seasons back and had to use the Toyota wind tunnel to correlate there tests vs there own own testing.

But god knows why they have'nt had a decent car in at least 3 seasons now.I mean they have had the driving talent with Raikkonen and Massa 07 and 08.09 till now with Alonso who I think is either the best or the next best driver on the grid.

Makaveli · Post by **Makaveli** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:25 pm

Ferrari went backwards since Schumacher left the team back in 2006. At the same time they have lost Ross Brawn and Jean Todt. I think they have lost a few other important people too. Also I believe they hired a lot of Italians within the team. So they probably hired people based on nationality rather than quality/experience. Their team is not what it was during the Schumacher era.

I would say Mercedes is the strongest team and will dominate in the near future. They have the drivers and also very good technical team lead by Ross Brawn.

Red Bull have Andrian Newey, who's a genius.

Ferrari has Alonso. He is their biggest asset.

Mr Ree · Post by **Mr Ree** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:32 pm

The main reason for their downturn in performance is that once Schu, Todt, Brawn et al left, their level headedness went out the door with them too.

Sure in 07 Kimi lucked into the title and in 08 Felipe almost took it too, but the carry over and momentum for those cars was born of the above names but it couldnt last forver.

The deeply ingrained culture of blame that existed within Ferrari for two decades was completely banished under Todts watch, but putting Domenicalli in his position was never going to work as well, and it seems he has made a point of increasing the italian workforce, hence the emotional responses to things seemed to have crept back in the door without anybody realising.

EDIT: ^^ haha snap

Mercedes, Brawn and Schumacher will be back at the top soon enough

fivebob · Post by **fivebob** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:37 pm

Makaveli wrote:Ferrari has Alonso. He is their biggest asset.

And their biggest liability. He can't build and motivate a team that will win him and Ferrari the championship. He may have talent as a driver but that's not all that is required to win a championship.

That coupled with allowing Italian politics into the team has destroyed what Schumacher, Brawn and Todt took years to build up. Unless Ferrari get their head out of the sand and realise that they need to change the culture of the team they will be in the wilderness for another 20 years just like last time.

2jayzgte · Post by **2jayzgte** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:35 am

Could the Ferrari situation be much like the problems Toyota had when they were in F-1 to many board room guys at HQ calling the shots instead of an out and out leader to actually run the F-1 team seperately from board room influences.

fivebob · Post by **fivebob** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:43 am

2jayzgte wrote:Could the Ferrari situation be much like the problems Toyota had when they were in F-1 to many board room guys at HQ calling the shots instead of an out and out leader to actually run the F-1 team seperately from board room influences.

Different situation, that's a case of Japanese board members not listening to the people on the ground and doing things that make sense in the corporate world that don't work when running an F1 team, a good team boss knows what's going on and can deal with it if he knows how to deal with Japanese corporate culture.

Ferrari is just typical Italian politics where chaos and blame becomes the culture. In that situation there is no way to deal with it because the people who should be sorting it out are a major part of the problem. Enzo ran the team like that, and that's why Ferrari go lost for all that time.

d1 mule · Post by **d1 mule** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:14 am

i am by no means an F1 expert whatsoever but i do enjoy the fact that everyone has written Ferrari and Fernando off already, after having finished 5th and 1st after two races and is currently leading the championship.

by that logic Button and Vettel have no chance either....

possibly Ferrari are deliberately misleading the press about their car somewhat ....

GTTpower · Post by **GTTpower** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:46 am

d1 mule wrote:possibly Ferrari are deliberately misleading the press about their car somewhat ....

Qualifying says otherwise.
Race pace though is completely different, Ferrari have had solid pit stops and have kept out of trouble.

fivebob · Post by **fivebob** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:49 am

d1 mule wrote:possibly Ferrari are deliberately misleading the press about their car somewhat ....

Nope, their car isn't very good at all, that is shown by their qualifying times, where they struggle to get into the top 10, and practice where they're running mid field.

To date they've been lucky, if it'd been dry in Malayasia they would've struggled for points. If we see a full dry race with no safety cars that's when you will see their true performance level. I doubt they'll finish higher than 6th or 7th, behind McLaren, Red Bull, Lotus and possibly Mercedes if they can get a handle on their tyre degradation issues.

Jdawg · Post by **Jdawg** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:22 pm

I would say this it is because they started development of this years ferrari to early last year and have been caught out by the slight changes Pirelli have made to the tyres. As with last year they will improve as the year goes on.
Every year which ever team starts with a poor car can't catch up effectively until the teams a back in Europe.

2jayzgte · Post by **2jayzgte** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:06 pm

d1 mule wrote:i am by no means an F1 expert whatsoever but i do enjoy the fact that everyone has written Ferrari and Fernando off already, after having finished 5th and 1st after two races and is currently leading the championship.

by that logic Button and Vettel have no chance either....

possibly Ferrari are deliberately misleading the press about their car somewhat ....

I'm not sure to be honest I think the Ferrari is quite good with heavy fuel loads but once it burns off for some reason the speed and laptimes go with it.

I have to say though all things considered Alonso has got the most he can get out of what Ferrari have given him though and I'd hazard to say if he had a car like the RBR or the Mclaren he'd have one a couple more titles by now for sure I really rate him as a driver,he's top 1 or 2 for sure.

JustinSpiderholden · Post by **JustinSpiderholden** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:28 pm

2jayzgte wrote:
d1 mule wrote:i am by no means an F1 expert whatsoever but i do enjoy the fact that everyone has written Ferrari and Fernando off already, after having finished 5th and 1st after two races and is currently leading the championship.

by that logic Button and Vettel have no chance either....

possibly Ferrari are deliberately misleading the press about their car somewhat ....

I'm not sure to be honest I think the Ferrari is quite good with heavy fuel loads but once it burns off for some reason the speed and laptimes go with it.

I have to say though all things considered Alonso has got the most he can get out of what Ferrari have given him though and I'd hazard to say if he had a car like the RBR or the Mclaren he'd have one a couple more titles by now for sure I really rate him as a driver,he's top 1 or 2 for sure.

Alonso had his chance in a Mclaren and was shown up by his Rookie team mate, he's a great driver, but doesn't have the abilty to rally a team around him to obtain sucess

His two titles in the Frog Mobile were more to do with Fat Guy tyres and the abilty of the Frog team to get the frog tyres working better than the other team, plus a mss damper may have also had a bit to do with that as well

Mr Ree · Post by **Mr Ree** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:41 pm

If you design a suspension system secretly in cahoots with Michelin, to work perfectly with their tyres, then the advantage will be huge, as proven by the 2 titles. Michelin didnt offer this advantage to any other team, just the french one. Go figure

Once the mass damper was rightfully banned, performance dropped like a stone and results have been barren ever since apart from a couple of lucky podiums early in the season before the other teams understand their cars better.

IMHO the reason Ferrari have built a car thats not the best is because of desperation. Changing their suspension philosophy to that of a 11 year old Minardi is a clear sign that they were willing to roll the dice and hope for the best due to desperation.

First it was Chris Dyers fault so they sacked him for covering off webber in Abu Dhabi, then they sack Aldo Costa for "not being inventive enough"...whos next?? Oh thats right...Mr Domenicalli....you reap what you sow

Im glad Costa has been picked up by Ross as he knows what a valuable skillset he has, and will give him a far more stable environment to prove himself, rather than the pressure cooker of working while the sword of Damacles hangs over your head.

2jayzgte · Post by **2jayzgte** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:43 pm

JustinSpiderholden wrote:
2jayzgte wrote:
d1 mule wrote:i am by no means an F1 expert whatsoever but i do enjoy the fact that everyone has written Ferrari and Fernando off already, after having finished 5th and 1st after two races and is currently leading the championship.

by that logic Button and Vettel have no chance either....

possibly Ferrari are deliberately misleading the press about their car somewhat ....

I'm not sure to be honest I think the Ferrari is quite good with heavy fuel loads but once it burns off for some reason the speed and laptimes go with it.

I have to say though all things considered Alonso has got the most he can get out of what Ferrari have given him though and I'd hazard to say if he had a car like the RBR or the Mclaren he'd have one a couple more titles by now for sure I really rate him as a driver,he's top 1 or 2 for sure.

Alonso had his chance in a Mclaren and was shown up by his Rookie team mate, he's a great driver, but doesn't have the abilty to rally a team around him to obtain sucess

His two titles in the Frog Mobile were more to do with Fat Guy tyres and the abilty of the Frog team to get the frog tyres working better than the other team, plus a mss damper may have also had a bit to do with that as well

True but he was only at Mclaren for 2 seasons and even over the last 2 seasons Hamilton's performance has stalled also.To me he was never a good fit at Mclaren.

I think its pretty poor that excuses are made for Alonso's success at Renault I mean he did beat Schumacher at his peak twice now how many can claim that.If anything you could make the excuse that the FIA have always been more favourable towards Ferrari and especially so when Schumacher and Co were at Ferrari.

Post by **Mr Revhead** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:54 pm

Shu might have been at or near his peakt. But Ferrari at the time were far from it.....

Re the tyres discussion, Ferrari and Bridgestone anyone?