It continues. 4age vs. b16a

Website · Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:51 pm

Chickenman wrote:Apples for apples the Honda zc (si civic/crx) is much closer to the 4age in terms of development (up until Toyota started using VVT).

i once upon a time had an integra with a zc motor in it (1.6L non-vtax)
i much preferred my 200,000km old factory standard smallport 4age in performance and drivability over the zc
the gearbox (with fuxed clutch) also owned the honda one

aesc · Post by **aesc** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:25 pm

Ditto Santa, and although it went very well i wouldnt have stood a chance against my mates 4age ae92 Trueno

BTW I think Chickenman is comparing the ZC DOHC to the 4AGE, ZC sohc doesnt compare

Website · Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:25 pm

ah yes, my ZC was socks

RS13 · Post by **RS13** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:35 pm

Santa'sBoostinSleigh wrote:
Chickenman wrote:Apples for apples the Honda zc (si civic/crx) is much closer to the 4age in terms of development (up until Toyota started using VVT).

i once upon a time had an integra with a zc motor in it (1.6L non-vtax)
i much preferred my 200,000km old factory standard smallport 4age in performance and drivability over the zc
the gearbox (with fuxed clutch) also owned the honda one

Yeah, I've had 4 ZC powered cars now, both sohc and dohc. The horrible notchy Honda 5spd and cable clutch really let them down! They're awesome, strong motors, mine had only a couple of minor mods, pod, exhaust, and (IMO, after owning both ZC/4AGE) easily pulled past any redtop 4AGE with similar mods.. but I'd probably imagine that would be because EF Civics and EA Integras (factory 950kg and 1050kg) are lighter than AE92s?

I would say the B16A is more comparable to the Blacktop 4AGE in terms of power output.

vvega · Post by **vvega** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:59 am

b16 still has bigger cams than the blacktop
considerabley bigger

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:13 pm

vvega wrote:b16 still has bigger cams than the blacktop
considerabley bigger

Not quite sure what that has to do with comparing it to a 4AGE that is worked to beyond belief? The B16As are still very streetable and reliable.

flygt4 · Post by **flygt4** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:30 pm

the original comparison was stock for stock, which has since been established thats even tho they share the same capacity and nature its not really a fair comparison due the hondas more aggressive factory cams.

i suppose he was right in saying a worked blacktop is more equivalent to a standard b16a

escortman · Post by **escortman** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:24 pm

just like every other 4age vs vtax it turned out stupid i think a mod should lock this

flygt4 · Post by **flygt4** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:08 pm

not really,i dont think this one has been too bad. as long as people put forward justifications for what they believe its not a problem. when it turns into i beat x with my y it gets a bit tedious tho.
some people are actually interested in technical reasons as to why one seems to perform better than the other, and what the actual differences between the two are.

escortman · Post by **escortman** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:10 pm

yeh im not baggin the whole thread but towards the end they just end up havin fights or something

flygt4 · Post by **flygt4** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:11 pm

leave it long enuf and itll die for another 3 months :lol:

then some other noob will come along and ask the same question again.

vvega · Post by **vvega** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:27 pm

this is posibly one of the best vrs threeds ive ever seen
and lith wants my babies...he just dosent know it yet :d

v

[A NINJA] · Post by **[A NINJA]** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:01 pm

Very good thread.....

I do love that mr2 for the world speed record how he threw away the 3S and put the 4A-GE in it.

I just wish someone would NA tune the crap out of their 4A-GE and race the kelford cams civic down the track. 1600 NA vs 1600 NA

has someone got a spare 50K to put to this challenge?

vvega · Post by **vvega** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:22 pm

honda's dont really gain much from cam's ...there pritty much there already

aesc · Post by **aesc** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:40 pm

Hondas seem to react better so very simple intake and exhaust mods, dear I say better than 4AGEs. But then I guess that comes back to their agressive cams

B16's happily run on 91 too dont they? Like to see a blacktop do that :lol:

RS13 · Post by **RS13** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:53 pm

aesc wrote:Hondas seem to react better so very simple intake and exhaust mods, dear I say better than 4AGEs. But then I guess that comes back to their agressive cams

B16's happily run on 91 too dont they? Like to see a blacktop do that

Err.. nope, both my B16A and H22A noticeably lost power and knocked like a bastard when I cheaped out and filled up with 91.. the higher compression loved 98 though.

[A NINJA] wrote:I just wish someone would NA tune the crap out of their 4A-GE and race the kelford cams civic down the track. 1600 NA vs 1600 NA

I think you'll find that the Kelford civic has an H22A block, stroked to 2.3l.. in fact, *googles*

non_vtec wrote:The car is running a custom crank, rods, pistons, by all accounts its 2.3litre, 15.25mm lift cams, custom head work, roller rockers etc etc.. it runs a custom 4spd gbox using an H22 housing, ITB's, Hytech side exit header, race gas, 750kg with driver..

So, I guess you'll need a SERIOUSLY tuned 4AGE to keep up with that!

So I guess we've concluded, factory vs factory, the B16A is a superior motor to the 4AGE?

JT · Post by JT » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:21 pm

RS13 wrote:So I guess we've concluded, factory vs factory, the B16A is a superior motor to the 4AGE?

In terms of power output I don't think there's been any debate over that.

I'd go so far as saying honda has had superior N/A technology of all the major jappas in the small engine category.

matt dunn · Post by **matt dunn** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:44 pm

non_vtec wrote:, 15.25mm lift cams, ..

Lol @ trying to fit them in a 4AGE

Loudtoy · Post by **Loudtoy** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:18 am

matt dunn wrote:
non_vtec wrote:, 15.25mm lift cams, ..

Lol @ trying to fit them in a 4AGE

Come on it's just a simple matter of 10-15 headgaskets at once jeez think outside the square :lol:

Lith · Post by **Lith** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:11 am

vvega wrote:this is posibly one of the best vrs threeds ive ever seen
and lith wants my babies...he just dosent know it yet :d

Shhh... our little secret! I started thinking about it when I saw your V8 MR2, the T70 would have sealed the deal!

And you're right, overall there aren't huge gains from upgrading cams - at least compared to some cars. I remember Honda people I know being gutted getting like 5-10hp gains from cams and a new tune and wondering what was wrong. Getting the least restrictive into and out of the head is definitely the best way to get power out of those things before you look at the cams.

<looks at NonVtec - what, over 160wkw on stock cams?>