What oil to use on a fresh rebuilt motor

KIPH8N · Post by **KIPH8N** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:10 pm

I just want to know what oil i should use on my rebuild 4age 20v turbo to first start up and to run it in and how long i should run the motor in for?

Flannelman · Post by **Flannelman** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:17 pm

Proper 30W running in oil. Used for first 500km.

Penrite, Valvaline brands do this oil

Shrike · Post by **Shrike** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:05 pm

First lot of oil start it up drive it round the block drain it and replace filter

Then 500km

Then 1000km

Then another 1000km

Changing oil and filter in between

The first change will make sure any metal filings etc are out asap

And yeah mineral oil until you've done the above and running in oil if you can get it

Then you can move to synthetic

I should probably find the info on a thread I started on another forum debating it

Oil brand is personal preference

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:05 pm

Any reasonable mineral oil will do, but go for a slightly lesser grade (ie SG or SL). Synthetics are a no no

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:06 pm

Shrike wrote:First lot of oil start it up drive it round the block drain it and replace filter

WOFTAM, don't do this

92mr2paddy · Post by **92mr2paddy** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:26 pm

my engine builder told me to

30w mineral oil.

first start up, run for 10secs,
check 'everything' for leaks.

then start up, run till warm with alternating revs, (obviously not high revs), shutdown, wait till completely cold, repeat.

drive for 20mins not putting on huge load or boost, but not lugging motor with idling etc then change oil (+filter) to whatever you want to use for good and drive 'easy' for next 500ks, no rev limiter etc and avoid traffic where you have to idle for ages so not to glaze bores.

have done this method to my drift car and to the mrs supra and both are going strong,

he used to have his own shop and rebuild motors/race motors so must be a good way to do it.

jacobrjett · Post by **jacobrjett** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:39 pm

nav,

for what its worth on my build i ran motul 5w-30 on the run in process, because it was what my engine mechanic had around his shop at the time. he said best to use the straightest oil you can find (ie no additive crap)

i changed oil and filter after about 400km and again at about 1000km, then 3000km.

i focused on doing a lot of engine braking and WOT. for the first few thousand KM.

I did NOT baby it. I pushed it quite hard (not like thrashing it but putting it under load quite a lot)

i suppose its different for you though because WOT is going to be a hell of a lot more stressful then it was on my NA one...

d1 mule · Post by **d1 mule** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:03 am

run it on on a dyno with a competent tuner.100% load and a guy listening for knocks / funny noises etc

allencr · Post by **allencr** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:24 am

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allencr · Post by **allencr** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:01 am

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allencr · Post by **allencr** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:22 am

Zero reason to change it so often as it isn't going to wear out, degrade or lose its additives in 1000 whatevers or 1000 times around the block. If it doesn't have a filter or has a bypass type filtering system like most everything till the 50's, air cooled VW/Porsche/Ford/GM/whatever, then dumping it after 10 minutes and looking'll tell whether it is going long live a long life or not, not whether the lube has been changed immediately or not. With a filter in place, any damage is already done and fresh lube will only slightly prolong its life since shit isn't being recirculated. Starting with an empty filter & unprimed pump after a change is 1000 times more destructive then any oil with less then 4000k on it IMO.
Change it because is really thin/lightweight 5-10-15 stuff that is being used to allow plenty of flow to the rings & pistons & pins & cylinders that are breaking in.
Cut the first filter apart to see all the shit that was left in the engine & if anything is coming apart.
PRIME IT!!!!
Read the mototune stuff.

MilfHunter · Post by **MilfHunter** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:49 pm

I think you hit the nail on the head
Priming a motor before starting for the 1st time and priming after oil changes is far more important than the type of oil used.

Take the plugs out, disconnect the ignition and spin it till you have the correct pressure which indicates there is oil all the way to the bearings and cams.

I don't believe in changing the filter too often as there's always a risk of something getting into the oil lines, also a filter can hold more metal than your oil pump can chew up without wrecking itself.

I also only run it for a few seconds or so to listen for any bearing noise and check for leaks.
The second start I run it up to full temp (till the fan comes on), in the shop to check for water leaks, if there's a leak, better to spill water on the drive where you can see it and stop the motor before it cooks

Race teams will spend hours priming a motor and circulating hot water before actually starting it, pity they don't explain that on TV.

Another thing I've learned is to drop the sump and wash it out after an hour or so of running a brand new race/bike motor. There is always pieces in the sump which will do your pump no good

tsoob · Post by **tsoob** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:09 pm

meh I just wacked some repco oil in it. will change it before tuning its just a startup oil. Repco is made by penrite anyhow

gt4dude · Post by **gt4dude** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:50 pm

Penrite have a breakin oil

I followed the proceedure,

1000km on breakin oil, varrying revs, no excessive loads, dump it, new filter and full synthetic 5w30 (new engine, tight clearances, thin oil yay), and boost that bitch

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.p ... oducts=397

Bling · Post by **Bling** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:59 pm

tsoob wrote:meh I just wacked some repco oil in it. will change it before tuning its just a startup oil. Repco is made by penrite anyhow

Just normal oil, not better suited oil? Wouldn't it have been cheaper to use the run in oil for start ups and the tune. Rather than using 4L of oil purely to start it a few times then tip away?

gt4dude wrote:Penrite have a breakin oil

I followed the proceedure,

1000km on breakin oil, varrying revs, no excessive loads, dump it, new filter and full synthetic 5w30 (new engine, tight clearances, thin oil yay), and boost that bitch

The exact same procedure mechanic did on mine oil wise.

I did lots of hill driving during the 1000km as I found it the easiest way to vary the revs and keep load on the engine up the hills and engine breaking down etc.

OMG so shiny! · Post by **Dell'Orto** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:50 pm

BZG|Bling wrote:Just normal oil, not better suited oil? Wouldn't it have been cheaper to use the run in oil for start ups and the tune. Rather than using 4L of oil purely to start it a few times then tip away?

Run in oil is no cheaper than the standard oil. Really, I don't know that a specific run in oil will provide anything that a ordinary oil wouldn't do for 500k (bar maybe a higher concentration of ZDDP). That said, I've got some Penrite running in oil for my motor, but only because I got it cheap before I left Repco :lol:

The exact same procedure mechanic did on mine oil wise.

I did lots of hill driving during the 1000km as I found it the easiest way to vary the revs and keep load on the engine up the hills and engine breaking down etc.

Best way shy of a dyno I reckon

Flannelman · Post by **Flannelman** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:28 pm

All running in oil has is less friction reducing agents and more detergents (cleaning agents). ZDDP is a zinc additive for high pressure, sliding metal contact (aka cam on followers)

It is interesting to note that all new oils had this additive dropped to comply with lower zinc emissions out the exhaust. There are exceptions, but they are only for people with large valve spring pressures on a flat tappet cam (high performance old school V8s for example)

It is for this reason that running in an engine is important as this oil doesn't offer the friction protection of regular motor oil. Excessive load/revs generates more heat than normal resulting in greater wear of parts and premature failure.

Perhaps the best oil that I heard of for running in under extreme conditions would be diesel oil. This offers very high detergents and the benefit of regular friction additives. It was a trick used in the 80's as running in oil was very expensive.

Bling · Post by **Bling** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:31 pm

I was more so meaning it's a waste to put oil in solely so you can start it up. Then get rid of it for dyno etc.

I thought the running in oil had all the good shit required to give the engine the best opportunity to bed in properly. I'm not an engine builder though, but if mine says it's needed, then i'll go with that.

mega4a · Post by **mega4a** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:25 pm

i like gt4dudes way hahaha

gt4dude · Post by **gt4dude** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:44 pm

this doesn't really make sense to me but my mechanic told me of a guy that had a rebuilt motor and he kept checking his compression and it kept rising so he dumped the breakin oil after 1000km and put in more breakin oil and kept checking the compression until it stopped rising, then he completely flushed it and went to synthetic

does this make sense to anyone? i don't understand it myself