TA22 celica with SR20 - plz comment

[gmacrae]

Howzit people I need your help convincing a mate of mine NOT to put an SR20det in a TA22 project he's doing.

He's building up this celica, it should end up to be an awesome car, this guy doesnt fvck around, and he's going for fairly big hp for 4cyl, but he's got this unhealthy obsession with those bloody SR engines.

Im trying to convince him to put a 3s-gte in there. Or even 4agze turbo.

Its pretty common knowledge that both are a superior engine to the SR series, these are some reasons to put a 3s in there that i can think of;

1) 3S has Iron block - He's going for fairly big HP for a 4cyl - Iron = tough

2) 3S has bucket/shim valvetrain (good for big rpm), SR has single cam lope per 2 valves with rockers for memory - cheap & nasty, not so good for revving.

3) 3S will bolt up to W5x series gearbox with the right bellhousing (from celica/corona with 1S engine right?) W5x is a tougher 'box than the sr 5speeds

4) He wants more CC's, he could start with a 5S block/crank and 3Sgte head - the 5s is 2.2L right?

5) Its Toyota! putting a nissan motor in a car as cool as a TA22 is just wrong... Right?

So i need some more reasons for him to NOT put an SR engine in his celica, help me out here lads. Anything you can point me to with decent info on the different generations of 3S engines?

I know the SR20's can be made to go pretty well, but my point is, a 3S is a much better place to start, especially if you're planning to build the bottom end like he plans to (forged everything, bored + stroked)

Also, what gear should he be looking for if he were to set up a 3S in his TA22, what series 3S? w5x gearbox from what car exactly? Anything else that might make him change his mind?

Cheers fullas, give us your opinions, but no stupid comments, i wanna print this thread out and give it to him

Gene

[CozmoNz]

Um, downfalls for the sr...

Shit cam Setup,
Timing CHAIN (i remember HRT saying its great fun changing them especially when they are covered in oil... just find the little dot... lol)
They love going without oil changes,
Common modification is to increase the size of the oil squirters, WITH A PIN!?!??! how small are they to begin with!?
they arnt toyota

tell him to put a 2j in lol.

he can do whatever he wants though, the sr20 can be quite a lethal weapon when tuned right...

can also be a great paperweight....

[RS13]

Cost. SR20DET's with 5spd gearboxes are going for over $3000 together, without ECU or anything. I'm sure you could buy a 3SGTE with loom, ECU, intercooler, throw some forged pistons in, buy a W5* with the 'S' bellhousing for a few hundred, and have spent around the same?

It would be a lot easier to get big power from a SR20, maybe cheaper to mod too, as lots have done it before.. but 3SGTE would make more sense, being Toyota and all. Too many people throw SR20's into whatever they can, but I've never seen a rwd 3SGTE in person, and thats' something I'd consider worth going to a carshow to see.

[gmacrae]

He wants to stick with 4cyl so he doesnt have to butcher the firewall or radiator setup, fair enough too.

RS13; why do you think it'd be easier to get big power from the SR? they're internals aren't any stronger, and if he's going aftermarket internals it doesn't matter. Forged 3s pistons and rods are just as easy to come by.

Also, making a 3s rwd is no big deal if you plan on making custom manifolds, im sure he does.

Keep em coming

[wde_bdy]

Best reason for the SR20, its designed to run RWD so is effectively a lot cheaper than the 3S. Basically, drop in and make engine and gearbox mounts. Converting a 3S to RWD can soon add to big $$$$.
If it was me (there are a lot of people who may well disagree) I would actually go 3T-GTE, basically all its flaws would be addressed in a proper build anyway (pistons, turbo, ECU etc) and it is practically a bolt in for the TA22 with a W series box already attached. Not only that it is effectively a factory upgrade as the ultimate evolution of the T series motor.

Callum

[gmacrae]

wde_bdy; he knows he's going to have to make custom mounts, wiring and everything, its not a matter of what will "bolt-in" its a matter of what ENGINE is best for the job. A 3T definitely wont cut it.

[mr pad]

3sgte. Will be way cheaper than sr, like rs13 said. having said that.. id probably rather a worked sr20det... bored to 2.2 etc

[Quint]

The only reason i'd choose a 3S is the gearbox, but then u can always get a custom bellhousing from SR -> W5*

[Mr Revhead]

well thinking logiclly theres nothing wrong with an sr20 setup......

what about an altezza 3sge and 6 speed?
i recently came across someone selling motors and trans etc for like $2000. or does he specificlly want turbo?

only thing i have against the 3tgte is some parts are damn hard to get now.

[Adydas]

Cost. SR20DET's with 5spd gearboxes are going for over $3000 together, without ECU or anything. I'm sure you could buy a 3SGTE with loom, ECU, intercooler, throw some forged pistons in, buy a W5* with the 'S' bellhousing for a few hundred, and have spent around the same?

A few hundred? man ive been ripped off.

[JustinSpiderholden]

Is your mate gay? would be the first question id be asking, thats jsut wrong to put a sr20 into a classic celica go the 3sgte i have a friend in enlson who has done the same conversion and it works wickedly and the best part is the motor your placing into ur cleica is jsut a latter model celica engine

best part is its not a over rated sr20

sr20 are the most over rated motor on earth,

im sure a 1jz would fit in there with out butchering the firewire theres a ae86 gettin around auckland with a 2jz and they havnt had to touch the firewall

[Mr Revhead]

yeah, but it took him bloody ages to get it going

[Adydas]

im sure a 1jz would fit in there with out butchering the firewire theres a ae86 gettin around auckland with a 2jz and they havnt had to touch the firewall

SO is it firewire or firewall?

[gmacrae]

Are you fools smoking something? (other than the pole)

I would think people in a toyota forum would be slightly better advised

The SR20 is one of the only 4cyl jap engines i'd never want to own, they were built to be cheap - that is all. Every other jap dohc 2l 4cyl on the road is better designed. Yes you can make them go fast, you can make a morris 1800 go fast if you really want to, but its still rubbish.

Justin, no he is not , cheers for seeing my point here tho

Where's all the GT4/caldina/mr2 boys? Surely they have their wits about them?

[Adydas]

Im with ya man.. my install has cost my 2400 bucks so far ( ex turbo )

[CozmoNz]

Are you fools smoking something? (other than the pole)

I would think people in a toyota forum would be slightly better advised

The SR20 is one of the only 4cyl jap engines i'd never want to own, they were built to be cheap - that is all. Every other jap dohc 2l 4cyl on the road is better designed. Yes you can make them go fast, you can make a morris 1800 go fast if you really want to, but its still rubbish.

this man deserves a speights, he speaks the truth

even the ca18 would be a better option

"Yeh but they got XXXhp for the datty drag car,
and the drift guys in japan got like 600 hp from their sr20s! they are good engines!"

yes well, they did... but its not really an sr20 anymore... almost every item is replaced, but yaknow, if he wants to, let him, his car... or better yet buy it off him

[Mr Revhead]

well same goes for the 800+ RBs. and rotors etc etc.....

[JustinSpiderholden]

putting a sr20det into a ta22 is sacreiglous, its like buying a lotus cotina and putting a rotor in it

don't do it

keep it within the heritage of the family and run with the 3sgte

yes mr revhead it did take him aages to get it goin and it's still not toally finshed but when it is it will be imactualte as i know the builder and he's not one to do thing by halfs

go the 3sgte, 1s bell housing, w55, do your usal turbo mods and it will be a rocket

and its won't be sr20det power

[Silvertop]

I can see where this thread is heading, why not give it a helping hand;

All you SR haters - have you had any first hand BAD experiences with these engines? I hear of more 3SGTE failures than SR20DET ones - or maybe that's because the car bodies die before the SR's get a chance too?

They've got to be the most popular platform out there - for builds and after market part availability (do a tardme search). Support for these engines is out there in abundance also.

I'm a tad biased mind you

[mr pad]

well same goes for the 800+ RBs. and rotors etc etc.....

and any 3sgte you can get to make 600hp cozmo...

sr's are not over-rated. did one of your mates tell you that? they are wicked tough motors from factory, and are reliable as piss as long as you dont let your oil turn to sludge. So its not a toyota motor... omg. your going to hell etc...