vtec vs vvti

[solitaire]

I did a search and was surprised to find nothing on this.

I think its fair to say: in terms of NA engines, honda initially owned the market with vtec.

Toyota now have their own version of this crazy valve witchcraft - was there a year at which honda ceased having an advantage? or is their design still the market leader in terms of NA power and economy?

[Lith]

Honda if anything have made a bigger gap more recent years, IMHO. The newer Toyota 4cyl motors have more or less caught up with the motors Honda made in the mid 90s now (at least in peak power terms), but the latest Honda K-series motors just stepped things up to another level, they made them make good power in stock form - but when people start modifying them it became clear that those stock figures are with very restrained setups.

They are reliable, economical, have as wide as ever a power delivery and give VERY rewarding gains when modified. I'm not sure they have any competition - at least in the 4cyl NA area at the moment.

[Bling]

It won't come up much on here as Honda wins

[iOnic]

+1 to what Lith said. And Rav4|Bling. And anyone else that speaks in Honda's favour in this instance.

[Grrrrrrr!]

+1 to the above. Toyota builds conservatively enginered very reliable motors/cars (in general), Honda does a lot more advanced stuff, and generally its also pretty reliable. I think honda puts a lot more into R&D generally, look at some of the crazy stuff they did with bikes (22,000rpm v6 bikes in the 70's, oval pistoned NR series bikes etc). Look at Honda's involvment in motorsports.. Indycar motors, F1, bikes etc.

[Dell'Orto]

2ZZGE is a very good competitor to the B18C, but yeah, K20A is miles ahead of the BEAMS motors

[iOnic]

Relevant to interests http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0 ... ewall.html

[spoonza6]

for shits n giggles someone should ask this question on the nzhonda forums haha

[phoenix]

It must be said that Honda is pretty much an N/A 4 cylinder company (of which I've owned a couple), so a fair whack of their drivetrain R&D funding is directed in that area.

[Grrrrrrr!]

It must be said that Honda is pretty much an N/A inline 4,5 & V6 company (of which I've owned a couple), so a fair whack of their drivetrain R&D funding is directed in that area.

FTFY.

Yeah, they dont do a lot of turbo stuff, or diesel or V8s.. but who needs them when there are sweet K20A, B series etc..

[rollaholic]

hondas are generally made of awesome, but for some reason are much maligned.

i mean if type Rs or S2000s came with toyota badges instead people here would be drooling at the mouth (and probably other orifices too)

[Grrrrrrr!]

hondas are generally made of awesome, but for some reason are much maligned.

I think the maligning has more to do with some of the owners that the cars themselves...

[diss7]

Imagine if they had've made a coupe version of the s2000!

[Lith]

Relevant to interests http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0 ... ewall.html

Probably worth noting that the B18C in that comparison is the US spec non TypeR engine. The majority of the B18C here are JDM which make around 180ps, and the TypeR engine is 200ps

[iOnic]

Is the 200ps/147kw SR16VE N1 too much of a rarity to join the fight?

[ch4ng]

Sounds like Honda's ahead if we're comparing 2ZZ's to B18's. Comparing new tech to the previous generation

[BZG Wagon]

Wouldn't any major differences simply come down to the cam profiles used?

There are number of variants by Toyota from memory:
VVT
VVT-i
VVT-Li
VVT-iE

Have no idea what all the differences are - I think the latter variants also alter the timing as you drive vs. the old types simply 'switched cams'?

[rollaholic]

I think the maligning has more to do with some of the owners that the cars themselves...

probably so, though there does seem to be a lot of 'hondas are gay' rather than 'people who have tastes akin to that of magpies and happen to own hondas are gay'

[Snaps]

Wouldn't any major differences simply come down to the cam profiles used?

There are number of variants by Toyota from memory:
VVT
VVT-i
VVT-Li
VVT-iE

Have no idea what all the differences are - I think the latter variants also alter the timing as you drive vs. the old types simply 'switched cams'?

I wasn't aware there was a VVT? I thought they were all VVt-i?

VVT-i is variable cam timing (advancing/retarding the whole camshaft)
VVTL-i is variable valve Lift/Duration (done by using two cam lobes/profiles), note that this usually also includes a VVT-i system for variable cam timing

Compared to VTEC which is switching between mutliple cam lobes/profiles, with i-VTEC being VTEC with additional cam timing/phasing as well.

IIRC?

[sergei]

Regarding toyota VVT tech:

VVT => 20v run it simple fixed angle advance on inlet cam
VVTi => 1ZZFE, 1NZFE etc continuous variable timing of cams (lift and duration is fixed) on either inlet or both cams
VVTi-L => 2ZZGE (as far as I know the only engine that uses Lift) VVTi with a second cam profile switchover at ~5800-6000rpm, basically continuous variable timing with two cam profiles.
Valvematic => has very high potential, but not used for performance models. It has ability to vary the lift continuously, thus removing the need for throttle. This system is awesome because since there is no throttle there is no compression losses associated with throttle, and obviously no potential restrictions or response issues.
Here how it works:
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/vvt_5.html