Upgrading starting system?

[ChaosAD]

I have a bluetop running 11:1 compression and an aftermarket ecu.It is a right c**t to start,starter just cannot turn it over fast enough. Have run 4gauge earth and power cables which helped a bit.
But are their any other starters out ther I could use which have a bit more torque? blacktop maybe?

[JasonZE]

Is the starter you have now a reduction type?
If not get one, If it is look at getting it reconditioned and get a higher cca battery.

[matt dunn]

agreed.

Best to use the reduction off the smallport 16V's as they are the best version.

And a good battery.

Is it a link ecu by chance? If so there is a trick to get around this problem.

Matt

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

ive got a smallport one FS

[gepsk8]

First get a good battery standard small jap batteries are to small for high compression motors, that could be half ur problem as i found out! U should see how big my new battery is. 800cca twin posts. yea for my sounds mainly.
get heavy battery cable to start and block, 4gauge is no good especially if the batterys a little flat. i've got 35mm welding cable.
like matt said get reduction starter off the smallport, also there lighter!
my mates old man run a reduction start on his race car blow to lots of plastic gear runners. but hes got 13-14:1 runs it on av gas.

[matt dunn]

my mates old man run a reduction start on his race car blow to lots of plastic gear runners. but hes got 13-14:1 runs it on av gas.

The redtop smallport ones dont have the plastic rings like the bosch, all steel in there.

Matt

[ChaosAD]

Thanks,Will have to get one of those starters. What is a reasonable price for one?

Nah, running a megasquirt II for fuel and standard ecu for spark (with timing retarded).
Once I get it doing fuel and spark ill be able to play round with the cranking ignition timing.

[ChaosAD]

The standard starter sits under the exhaust manifold. Will the redtop one fit here? or will I need to get a different geabox/engine plate so I can mount it under the inlet manifold?

[strx7]

I'd just about put money on it that the issue is either
a) the tuning of the ecu, or
b) the inadaqucies of the ecu

[ChaosAD]

Yeah that will have something to do with it as the bese timing has been retarded 5 degrees. need to get the megasquirt doing timing.

But will the redtop starter be sweet mounted under the ex mani?

[matt dunn]

Yeah that will have something to do with it as the bese timing has been retarded 5 degrees. need to get the megasquirt doing timing.

But will the redtop starter be sweet mounted under the ex mani?

Yes,

you can fit the smallport starter in place of a bluetop one,

but a bluetop one will not fit under the manifold of a smallport.

[suberimakuri]

what happens if you hold your foot flat to the floor (flood clear) first and then back off the gas (disable flood clear). ?

what is your base/cranking timing?

even with 15deg base you should be able to crank it over quick enough.
MS gets sad if there's not > 8 or 9 volts present (during cranking) for pulsing injectors.

[ChaosAD]

Its running 11:1 compression and when the engines warm the starter doesnt have enough grunt to get the crank past TDC more than a couple of times.
Cranking speed would be about one crank per second for a few cranks, then its just too much for the starting system.

Have a good battery and a 4 gauge cable going from the battery - terminal to the starter mounting bolt.

Base timing is 5 degrees.

Thanks, ill have to get one of those startes and give it a try.

[Loudtoy]

Interesting that your starter won't turn it over more than a couple of times when it is warm. Have you tried running another battery in parralell with what you have at the moment just for starting?? Otherwise it proably is the starter like everyone else says but i think it sounds more like a case of sad battery to me. If your battery is in the boot see if you can paralell the other battery up at the fron of the car rather than at the rear. Once the motor is turning the compression shouldn't make so much of a difference that the starter can only turn it over very slowly if at all.
This could all be wrong of course but i'd try 2 batterys 1st and see if that makes a difference to the starter speed.

[matt dunn]

when the engines warm the starter doesnt have enough grunt to get the crank past TDC more than a couple of times.

Very common on the older type non reduction starters as they swell up in the bushes and armature with heat.
A guy at work had thye same with his rallycar 4AGE.
We tried turning down the main part of the armature for more clearance,
and reaming the bushes out.
It all helped a bit, but in the end a reduction starter was the only fix.

matt

[ChaosAD]

Yea its a pain in the arse. cos if you stall it, you have to wait 10-15 min for everything to cool down before it will even think of turning over.

Are the silvertop starters the same as the redtop ones? or are they no good?

[suberimakuri]

we pulled mine apart and cleaned and regreased it. reassembled it and it was sweet.
Bit worn, but useable.

[ChaosAD]

Yea but even when cold the starters shite. Is the silvertop starter the same as the redtop? or is the redtop the only one to go for?

[fangsport]

Yea but even when cold the starters shite. Is the silvertop starter the same as the redtop? or is the redtop the only one to go for?

uses the same parts, but you will need to change the end case, as the mounting holes for the bellhousing are different.

[ChaosAD]

So you mean I can replace the end of a silvertop starter with one off a bluetop starter to make it into a redtop starter?