Radiator pipes needed / Top quality

[Mr Revhead]

interesting facts here... we'v had several cars come in that have genuine belts fitted and are upto 30000k over due and the belt hasnt failed. whereas wev had several with gates belts fitted been towed in cause the belt failed 5000k over due.

please note i am in no way advocating running your toyota cam belt for 130000 kays!!

gates are adequate. toyota are good

[Lloyd]

And if you change them when you're supposed to then it does matter which you buy

Belts are a bit of a mess after 130,000kms. Had a Toyota in with one broken at about 134,000 and looked like a sheep had exploded in behind the timing covers.

[SUBARUCONVERT]

I dont see many stock toyotas making 600hp, Enzo vs a 4afe corolla. bit of a miss match there. if the toyota ones only last 30k over 100k then they must be crap, ive seen a number of 200k old subaru timing belts at work (this is going off how u were talking). Therefor everyone should buy subaru belts for there toyotas

[fivebob]

I dont see many stock toyotas making 600hp, Enzo vs a 4afe corolla. bit of a miss match there.

Where did I say an Enzo.

My 308 has a 30,000km/3 Year service interval and it's barely pushing 240 at the crank, 308GT4s put out about 200, so yes it's very comparable to a lot of Toyotas.

Anyway since when has HP got anything to do with cam drive loadings.

So now we've dealt with that spurious argument, got any valid ones?

[fivebob]

if the toyota ones only last 30k over 100k then they must be crap, ive seen a number of 200k old subaru timing belts at work (this is going off how u were talking). Therefor everyone should buy subaru belts for there toyotas

Lets see, assuming a four cylinder opposed engine, that's half the number of cylinders per cam drive, so slightly more than half the load per belt. Suprised they don't last 250,000kms or more

Even if it was a six cylinder opposed, or 3 cylinder in line that'd be 3/4 of the load so 200,000 vs 130,000 seems about right ...Next


BTW you'd have been better off picking a Honda as your example (though there's flaws with that argument as well) a lot of them have 160,000 service intervals.

[Lloyd]

Half the load but twice the number of cams to drive and they're on a single belt Well, most of them

[Mr Revhead]

interesting to note that toyota are now going back to chains.

[fivebob]

Half the load but twice the number of cams to drive and they're on a single belt Well, most of them

So less shock loading per belt then. Actually cam drive topography probably has more to do with belt life than material selection anyway.

[fivebob]

interesting to note that toyota are now going back to chains.

So are Ferrari, the 430 is based on the Maserati 4 litre engine with IIRC dual row chains.

Chains have there own set of problems though (You can tell a loose Honda M/C cam chain well before you hear the exhaust note), but they are less subject to catastrophic failue than belts.

[Lloyd]

Just out of curiosity, are they Maserati-designed engines that Ferrari use, or Ferrari-designed/developed engines that are detuned for Maserati?

Ah chains, bring back the 4Ks

[fivebob]

I think they may be Ferrari designed. It's a bit hard too say as they are one company now, but seperate divisions. Not really detuned as such, more like hotted up for the F430, but yeah, same effect.

[SUBARUCONVERT]

if the toyota ones only last 30k over 100k then they must be crap, ive seen a number of 200k old subaru timing belts at work (this is going off how u were talking). Therefor everyone should buy subaru belts for there toyotas

Lets see, assuming a four cylinder opposed engine, that's half the number of cylinders per cam drive, so slightly more than half the load per belt. Suprised they don't last 250,000kms or more

Even if it was a six cylinder opposed, or 3 cylinder in line that'd be 3/4 of the load so 200,000 vs 130,000 seems about right ...Next


BTW you'd have been better off picking a Honda as your example (though there's flaws with that argument as well) a lot of them have 160,000 service intervals.

There may only be 2 pots per cam, but have 4 cams vs 2 must make for more friction and a higher belt load. Also being 2x the length of a usual twin cam belt must make it more suspetible to breakage/failiure (altho being longer lets the belt do less rpm than a normal one so takes some stress away). also using ur logic, V6 toyotas must be able to have an extended belt life over the V8 and L4 engines, but thats not the case


P.S subarus new EZ sixes use a cam cain also, but to make the engine shorter

[vvega]

just out of intrest the genuine belts are made by gates
and also of intrest that only there top of the line (not the racing) belt is spec'ed to be be a oem replacement



chains are also far easier to change
though tipcally a belt will streach less over its expected life
the fact that it narrows the width of teh engine is a majour advantage
though a chain drive has more loss than a belt drive

im sure they have there reasons

[vvega]

if the toyota ones only last 30k over 100k then they must be crap, ive seen a number of 200k old subaru timing belts at work (this is going off how u were talking). Therefor everyone should buy subaru belts for there toyotas

Lets see, assuming a four cylinder opposed engine, that's half the number of cylinders per cam drive, so slightly more than half the load per belt. Suprised they don't last 250,000kms or more

Even if it was a six cylinder opposed, or 3 cylinder in line that'd be 3/4 of the load so 200,000 vs 130,000 seems about right ...Next


BTW you'd have been better off picking a Honda as your example (though there's flaws with that argument as well) a lot of them have 160,000 service intervals.

There may only be 2 pots per cam, but have 4 cams vs 2 must make for more friction and a higher belt load. Also being 2x the length of a usual twin cam belt must make it more suspetible to breakage/failiure (altho being longer lets the belt do less rpm than a normal one so takes some stress away). also using ur logic, V6 toyotas must be able to have an extended belt life over the V8 and L4 engines, but thats not the case


P.S subarus new EZ sixes use a cam cain also, but to make the engine shorter

yes but any extra load is distubited over more the belt the fact there are more cam wheels on the same configeration spedding the load over more teeth effectively halving the load in a givin area of the belt
remeber the belts smap when teeth get ripped off
very rearly is it due to cord brakeage then it woudl be a manufacturing fault


been longer also gives it more resistance to breaking due to the now increased elasticity over the longer area allowinf for better harmoic /chatter absorbsion

it sill dose the same rpm as well i dont know how you worked that out unless the cam now spin at 1/4 engine speed instead of half

i think youll find your logic is flawed and with a little more basic phycis behind you you might put up a plausable argument :d

v

[fivebob]

just out of intrest the genuine belts are made by gates

Odd, I thought they may have been made by Aisin or one of the other Japanese parts suppliers, as they don't often source outside Japan for their domestic models.

Must be better than the ones they supply to Ferrari, or the aftermarket then. To give them fair due, the Ferrari belt system is a nightmare of tight radius turns, short runs with no shock loading capacity, and to top it off the tensioner bearings are prone to failure, so it may not be all the fault of the belts.

[vvega]

bllag

[vvega]

Gates Unitta Asia - A joint venture between The Gates Corporation of the United States and Nitta Corporation of Japan, partners in Asia for over 30 years. This new organization will manage and coordinate all our existing power transmission business activities in Asia.

i think i have a mitsubushi one as well with toyota stamped on it

perhaps they use a few supliers ??

[fivebob]

So it's a joint venture company, sightly different to being made by Gates. Though you would hope that they were the same belt with a Gates label, but given some experiences it appears that they may not be.

[vvega]

dunno ive herd of a lot of gates belts fail

all post 95 cars require a HSN or better
the HSN is gates top of the range belt ..aside from there racing range

im still a fan of the genuine belts ive used them for all sorts of things that you shouldnt ...lifting engines towing cars the usual
never had one snap
just based on my experances nothing more

v

[Mr Revhead]

lol you rough bastard.

yeah toyota have gone through a few different belt suppliers, is quite possible that they use more than one company. i had a look through the A, L, KZ and C series belts and they didnt have any of those marks you posted above wayne.
oh well, the moral of the story is service ya car on time!