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by **RedMist** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:44 pm

I don't want to start a debate in regards to the benefits of the changes from silvertop to blacktop (it's been done a million times before and will be done a million times in the future) however I wanted to list everything that was physically changed between the two engines. I've stripped down both but have more than likely missed several of the changes.

Blacktop changes over facelift silvertop.

Intake...
-Airbox, larger capacity and bigger entrance.
-Trumpets are now made of rubber (silvertop are plastic), and are bigger in diameter (approximately the same length)
-TB now have a 45mm butterfly as opposed to the 43mm of the silvertop.
-TB's have a taper to the floor of the TB which mates into a taper in the manifold. IE TB to manifold face the TB looks like a D with the bottom of the TB filled in. Silvertop TB's have no taper in the floor, floor taper only occurs in the manifold.
- Manifold has slightly different shape to port entrance. A smoothing of the teardrop shape as introduced on the facelift silvertop. Ports are also bigger.
- Vacuum balance now cast into the face of the manifold. Silvertop runs with an external collector based under the TB's.
- Blacktops are MAP sensored whereas Silvertops run AFM.

HEAD...
- Bigger intake port.
- Small port dividers. Silvertop has none.
- Open combustion chamber, silvertop has squish bands on both inlet and exhaust. (closed combustion chamber)
- Exhaust port is approximately 20% bigger in volume than the Silvertop.
- Cam Bucket fences are remoulded to hold more oil, and appear to allow for more cam lift.
- Additional support ribbing from sparkplug holes to cambearing platforms.
- Inlet cam has slightly more lift.
- Exhaust cam pulley has three spokes as opposed to six on the silvertop.
- VVT retimed, specifics unknown but this necessitates a new intake cam pulley. As such blacktop and silvertop pulleys differ.
- Anyone cc'ed the combustion chambers?

INTERNALS.
- Same Crank. Based upon P/N. Also viewing cranks.
- Rods, noticeably lighter, smoother radiuses on all projections/ joins.
- Pistons have smaller valve relief’s in surface. Silvertop has 5 pronounced valve releases, Blacktop only 3 intake are visible. 2 Exhaust do not exist.

BLOCK....
- Blacktop uses a hydrolic cam belt tensioner whereas the Silvertop uses a spring arrangement.
- Water and Oil pump housings are different castings to allow for different tensioners. Oil pump internal gears the same, ie no additional flow.
- ST cam belt drive sprocket is skinnier (1 ~1.5mm thick washer seems to fix misalignment) and t is off by about half of tooth.

GENERAL...
Exhaust manifold is much larger to mate to the larger exhuast ports.
Compression ratio raised to 11:1 from 10.5:1 on the silvertop.
Cambelt has one additional tooth over that of the silvertop.

by **vvega** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:41 pm

by **matt dunn** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:23 pm

by **RedMist** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:18 pm

Sorry VVEGA,

- Noticeably lighter, smoother radiuses on all projections/ joins.

was actually meant to read Noticeably lighter rods! have ammended.

And good point about the MAP sensor. I've always run Link so have always run MAP totally forgot about AFM.
In regards to the taper, yes all TB's are tapered however the blacktop ones have a taper to the floor as well, TB to manifold face the TB looks like a D with the bottom of the TB filled in.

Will keep the first post up to date with ammendments.

I've just noted that the pre facelift manifold also takes idle control vacuum from behind the face of the manifold, unlike the post facelift and blacktop.

by **vvega** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:18 am

dont forget the blactop is open chamber and the silvertop is closed chamber

v

by **RedMist** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 12:51 pm

Already there....

"Open combustion chamber, silvertop has squish bands on both inlet and exhaust. (closed combustion chamber) "

by **RedMist** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:32 pm

Is that all?

by **Mr Revhead** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:59 pm

heard that the blacktop crank is semi-hollow and a lot lighter but visually the same.
Dont know if it's true but if you've stripped them down you may be able to check

yeah the part numbers are the same with no supercessions right from the first redtops up to and including the blacktops. so all 4ages from redtop (and very late aw11) use the same crank

good job redmist, i think we should have a FAQ sectin where this kind of thing can be stored.....

by **10k 20v** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:32 pm

i have noticed myself the blacktop head has more ribbing in the centre.
ie. between the sparkplug holes and cambearing platforms. Appears to be far more rigid, perhaps they needed to add rigidity because of the enlarged port sizes?

You also mentioned the rods being noticibly lighter but smoother edging. Which means they are lighter but not necesarly weaker. (should watch my spelling :oops:

)

by **RedMist** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:59 pm

Ewan, I believe the blacktop rods to be superior for most NA applications. In actual fact I've only ever heard of one letting go. However this thread wasn't to debate the benefits of each change, just to list them.

Added additional ribbing into head section. Perhaps Toyota thought they were going to get too much cam flex?

by **mister2** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:12 am

heh, guess which one i've upgraded to

heres a hint:

good post redmist, should be put in a faq somewhere.

other *minor* things i've noticed:

-the exhaust cam pulley looks 'lighter' on the blacktop - only 3 spoke compared to the silvertop's 6 spoke

-base of the blacktop cams has been 'thinned' (don't know the technical term) looks to be possibly reduce reciprocating mass.

all ancillaries from silvertop will bolt to blacktop (water pipes, dizzy, vvt solenoid, intake, exhaust - even if the ports are slightly different).

cheers

nick

by **10k 20v** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:18 pm

i know this is no biggie but the blacktop has and extra rib at the back of the block where the waterpump sits around cylinder 1

by **ChaosAD** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:22 pm

Mr Revhead wrote:
heard that the blacktop crank is semi-hollow and a lot lighter but visually the same.
Dont know if it's true but if you've stripped them down you may be able to check

yeah the part numbers are the same with no supercessions right from the first redtops up to and including the blacktops. so all 4ages from redtop (and very late aw11) use the same crank

good job redmist, i think we should have a FAQ sectin where this kind of thing can be stored.....

So do you mean that all 4age/ze cranks with 42mm gudgeon pins are the same? I thought the silvertop crank was lighter than the redtop crank.

by **Mr Revhead** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:57 am

thats correct the only 4ages that have a different crank are the ae82 and early aw11 4age bluetop tvis ones. they are 40mm rod journals
all others are the same, redtop (tvis and non tvis) slivertop. blacktop and all 4agzes

Blackbelt Jones says: Clobber the Mob · by **Disco** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:42 pm

Ok, just to throw stupidness into the mix (which I am prone to do from time to time)

Much difference between the silvertop 90-93.5 and the "facelift" 93.5-94.5 engines?

I was under the impression they'd just basically been flowed but is there much to them?

by **10k 20v** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:19 pm

ChaosAD wrote:
Mr Revhead wrote:
heard that the blacktop crank is semi-hollow and a lot lighter but visually the same.
Dont know if it's true but if you've stripped them down you may be able to check

yeah the part numbers are the same with no supercessions right from the first redtops up to and including the blacktops. so all 4ages from redtop (and very late aw11) use the same crank

good job redmist, i think we should have a FAQ sectin where this kind of thing can be stored.....

So do you mean that all 4age/ze cranks with 42mm gudgeon pins are the same? I thought the silvertop crank was lighter than the redtop crank.

42mm gudeon pins

journals

by **spencer** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:24 pm

soory to post this in here but revhead or someone with part numbers need to clear up all the crap about the cranks and sticky it. every day I read blacktop 20v's have lighter cranks and gze cranks are the strongest. once they changed to 42mm big ends after blue tops all the cranks have been the same

by **Mr Revhead** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:27 am

ok this is it:

there is only 2 cranks for ALL 4ages... one with 40mm journals as found in ae82, ae86 and early aw11 at161 and a few carinas etc. this is the blue top tvis/big port engine

and then the 42mm one which is in late aw11(bout the last 6 months of production) aw11 s/c all ae92, ae101 and ae111 models, s/c included and a few other carinas etc, these are the redtop tvis and non tvis, all s/c engines and all 20vs.

Altezza RS200-Z · by **Sanxta** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:58 pm

does anyone know if the blacktop will bolt straight into an AE101 in terms of engine mounts?

and how hard is it to change from AFM to MAP? Or can you bypass that and just put in an aftermarket ECU with the conversion?

by **Mr Revhead** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:18 pm

the silvertop fits in an ae111 so the b/t will fit the ae101. cant say the same for all plugs etc though

go the aftermarket and use map. you cant just change the afm to map and keep the stock ecu

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