4age redtop ignitor wires

[l1ttle_d3vil]

got no spark on a 4age redtop tvis in ke70 so am checking over some wiring.
the ignitor has 5 wires on it; they are:

1. to ecu - IGf signal
2. to ecu - IGt signal
3. Ign + power
4. ? ? ?
5. connects to coil

what is the 4th wire for?? is it supposed to be earthed?

do the redtop coil/ignitor brackets need to be earthed somewhere for them to work like bluetop ones?
is there any way to test a coil by itself? as in connect one of the pins to a power source and sending the appropriate signal down the other pin (whatever that may be?).

cheers.

[SpeedRacer]

have u bolted it back on to the chasis? redtop ignitors earth by bolting to the chasis

[l1ttle_d3vil]

ignitor or coil?

the coil is currently just sitting on the engine, but i have run a fairly thick wire from the coil bracket to a decent earth point.

the ignitor body seems to be earthed out, if i check it with a multimeter and connect the ignitor BODY with anywhere on the car it is earthed out. would the body of the ignitor being earthed out suffice? or is there somethin more specific that needs to be earthed?

im pretty sure all my problem is is just dodgy earths. the loom is one of those ones off trademe; and the previous owner (who got the loom customised and installed it) hadnt even connected the earth on the manifold...

[l1ttle_d3vil]

bump...anyone?

[jondee86]

The 4th wire is the tacho output.

Cheers.... jondee86

[crispy'86]

i'd be wary with what i've experienced with those looma. I'm currently helping out a guy who got his loom stripped by this same person and has no igf signal for the ecu , i've advised him i had same problem with my fxgt but that uses orig loom. The problem is same.................no spark. I'm not trying to badmouth or put people off this person but just make sure you discuss if there has been huge success with loom lightening and what success rate is/ any troubles with running of engine/ is the person willing to help out with answering your queries./
The Igniter has to be earthed to body by bolt and make sure ALL your earths including ECU are earthed. Also if you have troubles pm me as i can have look at my redtop loom and advise you if you are missing anything.

[l1ttle_d3vil]

i'd be wary with what i've experienced with those looma. I'm currently helping out a guy who got his loom stripped by this same person and has no igf signal for the ecu , i've advised him i had same problem with my fxgt but that uses orig loom. The problem is same.................no spark.

hmm thats pretty interesting...what was the name of this guy? hamish? i think there are a couple of guys out there who customise the looms like this, better make sure we're talking about the same people...

how did you get around the problem with no spark on your loom?? did you find out exactly what the fault was?

jondee...cheers for that, for some reason that wire has been soldered onto the earth point that bolts onto the manifold. on another (unmodified) loom ive got this wire seems to go to the diagnostics box...does that sound correct? is it supposed to be earthed?

[l1ttle_d3vil]

The Igniter has to be earthed to body by bolt and make sure ALL your earths including ECU are earthed. Also if you have troubles pm me as i can have look at my redtop loom and advise you if you are missing anything.

does it actually have to be attached to the body by a bolt? i've attached a pretty beefy wire to the bracket and run that to the body. would that not work the same?

and do you mean including the earths from the ecu, or including the ecu body itself being earthed out?

[jondee86]

jondee...cheers for that, for some reason that wire has been soldered onto the earth point that bolts onto the manifold. on another (unmodified) loom ive got this wire seems to go to the diagnostics box...does that sound correct? is it supposed to be earthed?

Probably mistook the black wire for an earth. Yeah, I have a diagram
that shows the tacho feed being connected to IG- in the Diagnosis
Connector. Also seems to connect to the A/C computer and Cruise
Control systems on some models. All the same, the tacho output should
NOT be earthed.

Oh, and it doesn't matter how you earth the igniter casing, just as long
as it is earthed !!

Cheers... jondee86

[crispy'86]

The Igniter has to be earthed to body by bolt and make sure ALL your earths including ECU are earthed. Also if you have troubles pm me as i can have look at my redtop loom and advise you if you are missing anything.

does it actually have to be attached to the body by a bolt? i've attached a pretty beefy wire to the bracket and run that to the body. would that not work the same?

and do you mean including the earths from the ecu, or including the ecu body itself being earthed out?

Just normally bolted to the body, best to try that. unsure of name of guy who does the looms but will find out

[l1ttle_d3vil]

Probably mistook the black wire for an earth. Yeah, I have a diagram that shows the tacho feed being connected to IG- in the Diagnosis Connector. Also seems to connect to the A/C computer and Cruise Control systems on some models. All the same, the tacho output should NOT be earthed.

yep thats correct, on my other loom its connected to the ig- terminal on the diagnostics connector. had a feeling it wasnt right, but would that effect whether the coil / ignitor fires or not?

i will try extending my coil wiring/plug so that it will reach to the guard and i'll bolt the coil directly to that to make sure.

would be awesome if you could get that guys name crispy. im considering stripping the whole loom back and checking everything thats been done to it and starting from scratch, atleast that way i know exactly whats what. if this loom has been done by the same guy as yours then i'll probably definitely do that.

[jondee86]

Had a feeling it wasnt right, but would that effect whether the coil / ignitor fires or not?

The book says " NEVER allow the tachometer terminal to touch ground
as this could damage the igniter and/or ignition coil.".

It looks as if there are transistors in the igniter that switch 12V to earth
to energise the coil. So I would suggest trying another igniter after you
have made sure the tacho output is no longer earthed. Leave the tacho
output disconnected if there is any doubt.

Cheers... jondee86

[l1ttle_d3vil]

hah great, wouldn't have guessed it would be a problem seeing as it goes to a negative terminal of the coil anyway. obviously not the case though.

cheers for the help, hopefully ill get this sorted now

[l1ttle_d3vil]

I went and spoe to an auto sparky today to see about testing the coil and he said its not possible with the type of coil I have, and when I told him the situation he said if anything the ignitor would sh*t out before the coil.

is there any way to tell if the ignitor is working or not? preferebly with just a multimeter. when cranking, should there be voltage on the wire running from the ignitor to coil or something? if the ignitor is stuffed would there be no voltage?

not really too keen to borrow a mates coil / ignitor to test it then blow them up too hehe

cheers.

[jondee86]

If you have the later style coil with two plugs at one end, then the
primary resistance, measured between the +ve and -ve pins in the
small plug, should be 0.41-0.5 ohms.

The secondary resistance, measured between the +ve pin on the small
plug and the single high voltage output, should be 10.2 - 13.8 kohms.

If you have the earlier type coil (beer can style with two screw terminals
and a high voltage output at one end) then the resistance values should
be about 10% higher in each case.

For a better understanding of what the igniter does, go here...
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h24.pdf and read Page 15.
Better yet, read the whole article, as it has some good background info.

If the igniter is working, there will be voltage between the casing and
earth, but it will be very brief, and I doubt if you could pick it up with
a multimeter.

Cheers.... jondee86