intercool piping thoughts

[themaleman]

hi, we finished my intercooler piping 2day . the piping leading into the cooler is a bit small, but its wat we had 2 use. any 1 (people who no wat there on about) got any thoughts on how it would effect the boost ect?? the small pipe is only 1 5/8 inches
cheers

[bluemaumau]

what turbo you running?

2" piping is supposibly enough to support 500hp.

[themaleman]

t3 off a rb20

[themaleman]

BUMP

[flygt4]

just for an example of my setup , the piping leaves the compressor in 1& 3/4" for the first short bit then steps up to 2.5" before the intercooler , then leaves the intercooler in 2.5" before stepping up to 3" for the final run to engine.
a lot of it isnt pretty but it seems fairly efficient

dont skimp on joiners and use proper intercooler clamps where you can , as faulty/poor quality joiners cost me a turbo already

[Caveman]

On the turbo-IC section it looks like there is a sharp reducer which would probably cause a lot of turbulence. Can you take another photo of the reducer from another angle?

1 5/8 is an ok size to use, This is the size of my turbo-IC section. I could do all the maths to work out the pressure drop vs mass flow but I though since the outlet on the turbo is 1 5/8th the pipe might as well be the same size.

Those bends seem quite sharp too although I imagine all the minor losses in this system wont be very significant anyway.

[themaleman]

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[themaleman]

yea its got a couple of sharp bends but i mean thats the best we could do for where it sits. the guy that made the exaust manifold 2 the turbo but the turbo in a pretty shit place haha but i think we've made the best of it aye. that black piece of hose was put there for the movement when the engine rocks backwards and forwadrs (as slight as it may b). the hose is radiator hose. do u think it will withstand the tempurature and pressure being right under the turbo?? thats my main concern with wat we've ended up with

[themaleman]

bumpity bump

[slighty_sykotic]

That peice of rad hose will be fine. I had some comming from my turbo on my 4agte.

If I were you, the only think to improve on maybe, would be to get a better, smoother, reducer where it goes from the small pipe into the intercooler.

--Sykotic

[themaleman]

sweet as man,thanks. we have ported it all so the pipe is smooth on the inside, 2 reduce friction. hopfully up and running soon!! haha

[neon_spork]

On the turbo-IC section it looks like there is a sharp reducer which would probably cause a lot of turbulence.

The flow in the pipe will be turbulent anyway, as a rule of thumb it takes 10 times the diameter of the pipe for an internal flow to fully develop. Entrance, exit effects and the bends will cause turbulence. You will get increased pressure drop from the reducer. Smoothing the inside should reduce the pressure drop, if you are interester in the relationship between pipe roughness, friction and turbulence check out a moody chart.

[Loudtoy]

yea its got a couple of sharp bends but i mean thats the best we could do for where it sits. the guy that made the exaust manifold 2 the turbo but the turbo in a pretty sh*t place haha but i think we've made the best of it aye. that black piece of hose was put there for the movement when the engine rocks backwards and forwadrs (as slight as it may b). the hose is radiator hose. do u think it will withstand the tempurature and pressure being right under the turbo?? thats my main concern with wat we've ended up with

I wouldn't have used that personally but if it's what you've got thats what you use, try it and see but i'd imagine that radiator hose may expand quite a bit once you get some pressure going in there. Also guys if you look at that reducer it is on the feed into the cooler so it actually increasing the diameter of the pipe so not such a big issue for turbulance. Bit of a bugger with all those bends but sometimes it's the only way, at least it looks to be on a reasonably small section of piping so the length is kept short at least.
Can i ask what it's going on just interesting the way the pipe on the inlet side of the cooler looks to go straight up after the cooler outlet.

[themaleman]

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its going on a ae92 4agte. do you know if there is any where i could get that fat blue hose small enough for the 1,5/8' pipe? and yea the reducer is going into the turbo. and thanks ill check out that moody chart as a matter of intrest. we tried 2 keep the pipework as short and sweet as posible, thanks for the input.

[blitza]

there's a guy who sells silicone tubing and stuff on tardme, [ITL] or something, he's in the west side too.

[slighty_sykotic]

seriously, how many psi is radiator hose... I had a big section of it, a big u bend from the turbo back towards the motor, and then back towards the front. (had to because of turbo position).

Now, on the dyno, the pipe wasn't moving at all, that was on 14psi. Will work fine. Mate had a rx7 that had alot of radaitor pipe in the setup, and it worked fine.

Sure its not shiney tho

--Sykotic

[themaleman]

haha yea wish i had the bling. yea ive tried i.t.l, got the joiner and reucers of him, but no piping small enough. well any how i have 2 stick with the radiator hose anyway (untill i find some shiny stuff ) lol. cheers

[Loudtoy]

seriously, how many psi is radiator hose... I had a big section of it, a big u bend from the turbo back towards the motor, and then back towards the front. (had to because of turbo position).

Now, on the dyno, the pipe wasn't moving at all, that was on 14psi. Will work fine. Mate had a rx7 that had alot of radaitor pipe in the setup, and it worked fine.

Sure its not shiney tho

--Sykotic

Oh ok thats alright then i just thought it might flex as it's reasonably squishy and thought it may expand as well, not sure how much pressure is in a cooling sytem imagine not much more than 7-8psi. How do they handle the sort of heat a turbo's pumping out right by the exhaust manifold tho??

Edit dumbass i just realised that my radiator cap is a 1 bar item duh. They must be good for at least that much then

[themaleman]

hahahaha good 1

[Caveman]

On the turbo-IC section it looks like there is a sharp reducer which would probably cause a lot of turbulence.

The flow in the pipe will be turbulent anyway, as a rule of thumb it takes 10 times the diameter of the pipe for an internal flow to fully develop. Entrance, exit effects and the bends will cause turbulence. You will get increased pressure drop from the reducer. Smoothing the inside should reduce the pressure drop, if you are interester in the relationship between pipe roughness, friction and turbulence check out a moody chart.

The flow will be more turbulent but a 'reducer' like that will create 'seperation bubbles' therefore seperation of boundary layer and increased pressure drop.

Formula for Kl = (1 - d^2/D^2)^2

going from 1 5/8 to 2 inch (I assume 2 inche size as 2 - 2.5 is a common reducer size and it looks like hes used this to join to the intercooler, also assuming turbulent flow)

Kl = (1 - 1706/2581)^2 = 0.12

Kl for 45 degree expansion = 0.04
Kl for 20 degree expansion = 0.02

So you can see that a 20 degree reducer will have 1/6th as much head loss as a sharp reducer.

However, this should also be taken that the loss is also 1/6th of sweet fu!k all anyway so its up to you if you want to change it.

It takes approx 400CFM to make 250HP.

mean velocity:

0.19 m^3/s
pipe cross section (before reducer) 0.0054 m^2
0.19 m^3/s / 0.0054 m^2 = 35 m/s

hl(sharp expansion) = 0.12 * (35 / 2(9.81)) = .214m

.214 * 9.81 * 1000 = 2100 pascals or 0.3psi pressure drop

alternatively for the smooth reducer

hl(smooth expansion = 0.02 * (35 / 2(9.81)) = .035m

.035 * 9.81 * 1000 = 343.35Pa or 0.0497 psi

I hope you feel happy, if you want an extra 0.25psi put on a smooth reducer

There are so many other 'minor' losses in the system that need to be calculated to get an accurate model, plus you would need appropriate parameters to do calculations which would only be true for those parameters. Best thing to do it make the track as smooth as possible with as little disturbance and change in cross section as possible

PS its late there are probably errors, please correct me