How low is too low?

[xRyanx]

Howdy,

In regards to my AE111 levin, im thinking about lowering it some more, purely for asthetics. As its on adjustable suspension its not biggie to drop it some more, and is free.

However, at the moment the car handles outstandingly at its ride height, and im wondering if there is a point where all of my handeling will go out the window. If so, where have people found this point to be?
ATM i am unable to give exact measurements of my ride height, but i can do so later if they are needed.

This is not a poll, and this is not asking peoples opinions, for this topic i would like facts, or experiences.

Cheers everyone, once again all help is appreciated.

[crnkin]

the lower you go, the stiffer your springs must be, as you will significantly reduce the suspension movement % wise as you approach 0.

toyotas traditionally have low xmembers and chassis rails in relation to suspension height, so when my car sits at 50mm off the ground at the xmember, or 40mm at the lowest point, my 14 inch rims are still easily visible.

In saying that, when you say purely for aesthetics, your answering your own question.

There is no such thing, as too low

[pc]

There is a law, can't remember specifics, but I think you need a cert if the lowest point of your car is below 100mm.

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

There is a law, can't remember specifics, but I think you need a cert if the lowest point of your car is below 100mm.

correct, well kind of
basically, if your cars structure is below 100mm
bodykits and exhaust dont matter

In regards to my AE111 levin, im thinking about lowering it some more, purely for asthetics. As its on adjustable suspension its not biggie to drop it some more, and is free.

if you already have a cert for the adjusties, then you will need it re-certed at a different height. no ifs no buts.
it says on ther cert plate what height its certed at
i _think_ there may be a 5mm tolerance on each corner

think about it this way
do you ever take your car anywhere where its going to scrape on anything?
i raised my dina up a bit a while back and im glad
i bottomed out in all the carpark buildings, some driveways etc
also if you are low, it fully limits where you can take your car
i like heading all over the show, whether its on a farm, down by a river, whatever, but if its stupidly low, well it basically means you'll bash the bottom of your car/exhaust/spoiler/etc off, belly out, or get stuck

also if you go too low, you'll get a horrible bouncy ride, and make the handling horrible, and possibly dangerous

my 2c

[crnkin]

5% i think the height is.

Low is cool, but there is a point where it becomes too bouncy, you can find it by experimentation, or ask someone who has a track car, but even then, your car isnt a track car.

tough choices

[xRyanx]

Cheers for the sensible answers everyone.

The only place I go that I may be limited access wise would be parking buildings. But its just the factory lip anyway! Id be very worried about bottoming out, so Id be careful as to how low I went in that regard.

My car is rather bouncy already, not dangerously yet, and I'd like to hope Im not stupid enough to make it dangerous.

Cert cost is $300 right?

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

300-400 depending on who you take it to from memory

www.lvvta.org.nz for all your cert goodness

[xRyanx]

thank you my friend

[JT]

Check the measurement on the cert tag, assuming you have one and work out 5% of that, subtract it and put it at that height to see where you stand legally, if not who cares about it just experiment.

It will start to affect your handling if cornering hard on a typical nz road, you hit a bump and don't have enough travel. The shock of bottoming out on the bumpstops will unsettle the car.

Also, once your lower arms start angling above horizontal you'll get all sorts of problems with alignment. Camber, bumpsteer, tracking are all affected.

I think 100mm ground clearance is a practical minimum.

[xRyanx]

Check the measurement on the cert tag, assuming you have one

Yeap, have a cert, and if i go past the 5%, will get another one, im all for keeping it legal and trying to give car enthusiasts a better name.

Also, once your lower arms start angling above horizontal you'll get all sorts of problems with alignment. Camber, bumpsteer, tracking are all affected.

I think 100mm ground clearance is a practical minimum.

Im guessing you mean problems in a negative term (thinking about it, problems are never positive )

What would these problems cause in regards to the car?, wear, structual integraty(sp) etc

[IH8TEC]

with my coilovers, i had the car sitting reasonably low, about 5mm higher that bazda's but with 14inch tyres, now at the drags i had to raise the car up to fit the drag tyres, then raise the back to make that a bit more level, and made shocks harder

after the drags i couldn't be stuffed lowering it again to drive home, lifted the car a total of abotu 15mm i think and i've left it at that since, as the car handles so much better, it's more predictible, responsive, and smoother. yeah it's a bit higher, but i'm not too worried about that,

lowered is not everything, but yeah you have to get re-certed for +/- 5mm

[l1ttle_d3vil]

if you already have a cert for the adjusties, then you will need it re-certed at a different height. no ifs no buts.

is this the case even if the car is still above 100mm though??

and excuse my ignorance, but what would the point be in having adjustables if you need to get it recerted whenever you change the height? isnt that the idea of having adjustable suspension? or are they more aimed at track/race cars instead of road cars? or am i just missing something all together??

[Santa'sBoostinSleigh]

if you already have a cert for the adjusties, then you will need it re-certed at a different height. no ifs no buts.

is this the case even if the car is still above 100mm though??

yop, cause if you have adjusties, you need a cert (unless they are OE)
when you get a cert they stamp the height onto the cert plate
if its not within the 5mm, then it needs to be re-certed for that height
the thing with the 100mm is if you can lower any car (for example with super low lowering springs and shortened shocks) and it will be under the 100mm, but they arent adjustable. 100mm clearance is what LTSA(?) have defined the 'safe' limit as

and excuse my ignorance, but what would the point be in having adjustables if you need to get it recerted whenever you change the height? isnt that the idea of having adjustable suspension? or are they more aimed at track/race cars instead of road cars? or am i just missing something all together??

nope, thats just they way it is
if you set it at a different height to what its certed at, for one reason or another, its not necessarily safe any more
basically to do with clearance, suspension dynamics etc

[IH8TEC]

if you already have a cert for the adjusties, then you will need it re-certed at a different height. no ifs no buts.

or are they more aimed at track/race cars i

they are aimed for race track race use yes, where you need all that adjustment to fine tune things

[fangsport]

and excuse my ignorance, but what would the point be in having adjustables if you need to get it recerted whenever you change the height? isnt that the idea of having adjustable suspension? or are they more aimed at track/race cars instead of road cars? or am i just missing something all together??

adjustable ciol-over struts originally were a method of adjusting the ride height and corner weights on race/rally cars.
over time, as the Taiwanese knock-offs became accessable, they became the norm for lowering a car, and molesting the suspension geometry

[MrDori]

Low Down is Best!!!

Garage slipway stz

[soopachargen]

When I get my coilovers I'm gonna space my lower balljoints to fix the angle of the lower arm (and the roll center/s) to try and return it to that of a standard corolla, im also going to modify the outer rod ends to fix the angle of the steering arms. I'm hoping this will allow me to go low and keep the suspension geometry that toyota put thousands of dollars into designing and hopefully make it handle better.

One of the factors thats got me heading towards D2 coilovers is that they have their ride height adjustment by moving the lower mount of the shock up or down the shaft on a thread rather than moving the spring perch and altering your spring pre-load, so you avoid changing the travel of the spring.

The value on your cert plate is a measurement from the wheel centre to the guard... also known as eyebrow height i believe they allow +or- 5% to allow for different loading so it's not really a good idea to change it by the 5%. I have never seen the height checked on my fx though so you may be lucky and get away with changing it, but as always you have the chance that if you crash it your insurance company may measure it and say your car wasnt to warrentable standard and void your insurance.

[JT]

One of the factors thats got me heading towards D2 coilovers is that they have their ride height adjustment by moving the lower mount of the shock up or down the shaft on a thread rather than moving the spring perch and altering your spring pre-load, so you avoid changing the travel of the spring.

Please explain

You can't change the height of a car without moving the spring perch or changing the spring.

[fangsport]

One of the factors thats got me heading towards D2 coilovers is that they have their ride height adjustment by moving the lower mount of the shock up or down the shaft on a thread rather than moving the spring perch and altering your spring pre-load, so you avoid changing the travel of the spring.

Please explain

You can't change the height of a car without moving the spring perch or changing the spring.

some of the new-beaut adjustables have a fully threaded body and also have the lower mounting bushing incorperated into a threaded section, thus allowing a ride height change without a spring rate change.

[xRyanx]

Awsome stuff,

Car goes in tomorrow to get some bushings replaced, a drop and a wheel alingment.

pics to follow