Election 08

[touge rolla]

nuclear power
theres one

allowing us closer relations with the USA, no that doesn't mean being on the frontline in iraq, or following their policys. but it would open the way to better trade relations with USA.
theres two!

We don't need Nuclear power, we need solar, wind and tidal power.

Better trade relations with the USA? We're already heading towards a free trade deal with them without selling our souls.

[jonno*]

dude....

are you the guy that writes helens rhetoric?
coz you sound like her

I'll take that as a compliment coming from somebody who sounds like they regularly ring up talkback radio. And funnily enough, I'm not a supporter of the Labour party.

military spending a waste of money? oh dear, your one of them.....

sorry im wrong

now lets just all have a big hug and the world will be fine

One of them? Heh. Do me a favour - try and figure out who said this, and also tell me who new zealand could possibly be defending itself from, or attacking to justify increased military spending.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

Think it was 'one of them'? A bloody useless student (go on, say it)?

when you get out of uni and have had a few years in the real world let me know. thanks

Funny you say this - in the holidays I work 60 hour weeks at menial blue collar jobs and don't feel enlightened by it at all.

so all our ships are fully manned and operational?
our battalions properly equipped and ready to go?
planes maintained and fueled up?
yeah right.
if its all ok and fine... then how comes all the reports say its not?
how comes theres had to be investigations into how they have gone about buying things?

Again, you're quoting that report. You ignored where I said the head of policy for the minister of defence came and told us it was complete bollocks, written by an uppity journalist who doesn't know anything about the subject. Guess who wrote this -

I wish that some of those commentators claiming the New Zealand Army "cannot fight" would look some of my soldiers in the eye and try saying that. Or that our Navy cannot sail. Try telling that to the crew of our warship HMNZS Te Mana which returned home yesterday after five months at sea as part of an international coalition task force in the Central and Southern Arabian Gulf. Or that our Air Force can't fly. The dedicated aircrew of New Zealand's P3 Orions who flew more than 2300 hours last year, conducting maritime surveillance over New Zealand's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), the Pacific and the treacherous Southern Ocean, might just have something to say about that too. The list goes on. So the Defence Force is doing what it is trained and, importantly, is equipped to do - defending New Zealand's values, interests, culture and way of life.

Sadly, some commentators lumped together any output targets that were not met and characterised the Defence Force as being unable to fight, float or fly. This is just wrong.

"Lieutenant General Jerry Mateparae is Chief of the New Zealand Defence Force."

That guy - do you think he might possibly know more about the situation than a sunday news journalist looking for an interesting story?

i agree it should a have a strong disaster relief focus, they cant even do that!!

Bollocks bollocks bollocks. Yet again, no information to back this up. New Zealand soldiers are well known thoughout the world for their contributions to peacekeeping - e.g in places like yugoslavia where there's examples of the presence of our maori forces contributing greatly to peacekeeping in the area when other whiteys weren't able to. We're the second largest peacekeeping force in east timor for example, not to mention the role the army plays in new zealand's developmental assistance to the south pacific.

as for anti smacking charges... i can recall two off the top of my head, guy in chch, and i think the other was in a masterton supermarket.
why do we need an overly oppressive law against something thats already illegal??

Again - where's the facts? Look it up on the herald website or something, they lap this shit up. I can't find any cases of prosecution of people who weren't using 'excessive force' - wonder why? Because there's a clause in the bill which states the police have the right to ignore inconsequential breaches of the law - i.e a light tap that doesn't leave children bruised and scarred. Again, the bill was voted for by both national and labour, passing 113-7, and both national and labor have stated they're going to ignore the flawed, useless referendum that was put forward.

nicky hagar is about as credible as mike moore (the american) no, wait. hes not even that credible

*Yawn* You haven't read the hollow men have you? Haven't read seeds of distrust either then. Know anything about the issue at all apart from watching a brief clip on the six o clock news?

he's nothing but sensationalist author playing on the gullibility of the type of ppl who think JFK was assassinated by elvis and the butt probing aliens from phobos iv

No idea where this is coming from. Anyway, blah blah blah, guessing you've never read a michael moore book either? His movies are quite interesting if you want to check them out, talks about nice things like healthcare, racism, discrimination, kids killing each other will easily available guns, in the same league as 'butt probing aliens' I'm sure :rolleyes:

allowing us closer relations with the USA, no that doesn't mean being on the frontline in iraq, or following their policys.

Firstly: The New Zealand SAS does dirty work for the states in afghanistan. Remember willy apiata who got the victoria cross in afghanistan a little while ago? He also got us military honours for doing that - one of only about half a dozen non-us groups since ww2 to get it. We've got people in iraq and afghanistan doing reconstruction anyway - we're close enough as it is.

As for 'allowing closer relations', you'll find we actually don't agree with a hell of a lot of things the states does. http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html Read that, it's the list of how many times the states has vetoed legislation in the un - new zealand doesn't stand with the us on a single one of those issues.

nuclear power

Nobody is lifting the ban on nuclear weapons and power anytime soon. It'd be political suicide, don brash got wiped all over the floor in 2005 when he said it'd be 'gone by lunchtime' hence going for more renewable energy.

but it would open the way to better trade relations with USA.
theres two!

This is what the Australians have done. The devil is in the detail and we'll get shafted on things like intellectual property, loss of local content on television, pharmac, jobs lost due to our higher wages, labour laws and environmental protection as opposed to the states. Hell, even throw the treaty of waitangi in there, as well as agricultural lobbyists in the us govt. As this dude said anyway, we're already talking about a multilateral deal with them (though the us will be a lot more interested in trading with singapore, chile & brunei than us)

now, enough of this back and forth on the internet
go read some papers
watch the news
look at some websites.
LOOK
LISTEN
THINK

Pretty hypocritical coming from somebody with nothing to say that you wouldn't find on a talkback show or in the comments section of the herald. Get real.

now im pissed, you'v forced me to be serious for a whole post

if that was serious then you must look pretty thick when you're casual

[Adamal]

I think that the fact is that New Zealand is getting tired of this government, and wants a change.

[jonno*]

oh, one more thing

and this is something that i just cant understand....

helen clark is so fast on the insults, every chance she gets shes insulting her opponents, usually in a very childish petty manner. it goes beyond disagreeing with them, she really does sound like a 6 year old in the playground, albeit one good with longer words

honestly, and please every one who wants to vote labour, please answer this...
honestly how can you justify that? doesnt that make you ashamed to want to support her? doesnt that make you question her integrity and policies if she has to resort to name calling and slandering? instead of reasoned explanations of her stance?

hell, it makes me ashamed to say shes the PM

Yeah, it's called being a politician, and is why they're universally disliked. John Key doesn't seem to do it as much but he has focus groups on everything from the color of his tie and suit to every single one liner he puts out there, so they will probably have told him not to be such a wanker.

[sergei]

I think that the fact is that New Zealand is getting tired of this government, and wants a change.

yeah I agree,
the government needs to be changed, as in: the fire all $&#$% and restructure the bloody place so it will require 1/10th of the employees to run it. here, that is where lost billions went.

[Mr Revhead]

blah blah blah

[Bling]

Play nice you two.

May I ask what you do for a job jonno*? you seem to be on the ball with the politics imo

[sergei]

Play nice you two.

May I ask what you do for a job jonno*? you seem to be on the ball with the politics imo

I hate politicians

[Mike-]

i just really hate helen

lifes a bitch , dont vote for one

[Mr Revhead]

Play nice you two.

May I ask what you do for a job jonno*? you seem to be on the ball with the politics imo

i am being nice!
havnt turned all green and ripped my shirt yet

he's actually missed the mark quite a bit.... like pretty much every point i made.....
he's also made it quite clear he's not at all willing to listen

oh well

[pc]

I never said anywhere that it has given Kiwi's either better and/or cheaper services, however it is certainly the case. A business that is doing very well is clearly going to be expanding and offering more job's to the citizens of our country.
I suggest you do a little more research into the matter yourself,

I believe privatisation only makes things worse for average joe, so IMO National will f*** the country worse.

Feel free to share some facts that support this arguement.

I don't have any facts, that is why I state it is my opinion, anyway I believe most "facts" on many matters like this are just the publication of a collective opinion.

But if we look at the business round table publication as publishing "facts", and take out the excerpts that may support my arguement, like Telecom...

apparently we have experienced "significant declines in the price of phone services" I don't know about you, but my phone bill has gone up lots, and not nearly as much as it would have if Telstra wasn't available in my area. They are probably taking into account the reduction in the price of toll calls, but ignoring that this has happened globally and is much easier and cheaper with the advancements in communication technology that have occurred during the time that Telecom has been privatised.

"There were benefits to the company from higher productivity and increased output" WTF does that mean? A more efficiently run Telecom really depends upon your point of view.... does the company exist to maximise profits returning as much as possible to the shareholders? or does it exist to provide good communication services to all Kiwis as cheap as possible?
I don't have any Telecom shares, so guess where i'm coming from?

What I want to see is some unbiased research on is how much money has been saved by average joe through the existence of kiwibank. The other major banks have adjusted their pricing/terms since Kiwibank started so that might have turned into savings for everyone...

[Mr Revhead]

fees for kiwibank have risen since they started

they are just a bank.... the only reason i joined them is i could pop round to the postshop/dairy round the corner from home and do my banking at 5.15 when all other banks are shut

[B1NZ]

fees for kiwibank have risen since they started

they are just a bank.... the only reason i joined them is i could pop round to the postshop/dairy round the corner from home and do my banking at 5.15 when all other banks are shut

yes they have, but they still have a lot better incentives and lower fees than the rest of them, count yourself lucky

[B1NZ]

blah blah blah

he's also made it quite clear he's not at all willing to listen

oh well

Pot/kettle/black?



I'm done with talking about politics, I'm out of this discussion, already know which way I'm voting

[xsspeed]

I'm not going to get too stuck into politics here, I admit I am not nearly as informed as I should be, and had my day to day timetable been a little more clear I would have delved into it, as I find it very interesting how different policies affect the country and how a balance is reached.

From the size of this thrad already you can see it is a passionate debate, and can really bring out the beast in people, you should here some of discussions get nasty where I work.

What interests me is how many people have changed who they are voting for from the previous election(s) and why? I think a lot of voters join sides and end up not interested at all in what other parties have to offer, which should really be done to make an informed decision. I am guilty of it as well, don't have the time cbf'd etc etc.

As for kiwibank their fee's are sh1t. I get charged on every AP that goes out, while through ASB I still pay zero bank fees. (Apart from maybe credit card)

While I don't necessarily agree that Kiwibank should be sold off just yet as I think it needs a little more govt. support to justify the expenditure, I don't see why this shouldnt be the case in future. As stated if people start getting bullied again by banks the ComCom should be stepping in.
(They should also have more of a presence when Joe Public is being ripped off simply because while I think business should be left relatively free of govt. intervention, colusion and price setting is not what I see as being fair and competitive business)

[big-ben-007]

HAvent seen this thread untill know .

As a first time voter and a uni student Im actually struggling to figure out who I'm going to vote for.

After 9 years of some of the best economic conditions ever Labour finnally decide to give tax cuts when the world economy has finnally slowed down . Also saying that uni students will get a universal student allowance type thing in 2012 is also stupid becuase I'll long be out of uni so that policy is Irellivent to my interests, and it just pisses me off becuase my old man earns 4k to much for me to get any type of allowance at the present date, even though I don't get financial support at all from his pocket

National is more desirable than Labour, but not enough for me to actually give them a vote, John Key is being to hazy for my liking about key policies when he should be spelling them out crystal clear, this opinion could change with more information in the next few week however.

Greens I cant stand, out of all the parties they bring the most PC bulls*it into legislation even against the majority of the publics wishes ie:Anti-smacking bill. Also the anti-nuclear thing really pisses me off, research should be done as to how to make it work ie: how the French do it with limited waste, but the Greens just dismiss it willy nilly. Also the G-E free stuff pissess me off but I've said enough


NZ first will just be the Winston party as it seems at the moment, he's a great politician, which is the problem

Maori party are actually not to bad untill you read the policies just aimed Maori people which doesnt realy work for me, as I havent got a speck of Maori in me

Act, Will be limited for votes as they will only work with the Nats and people are just giving their vote to the nats anyway. The only way thet they will be back is if Hyde wins Epsom.

The only party I am conserdiring is United Future, they seem to have some good all around policies and should hopefully keep any government from going bezerk with legislation.

Its a shame there was not a full party leaders debate so we could actually get more than 2 people perspectives on how thing should be done. There is a minor party debate I know,, but thats not quite the same thing

[99gtt]

doesnt seem right that a minor party with around 6% of the vote can ram a policy a large majority of the country doesnt want through and make it stick

or a party with 8 seats hold a party with 40 odd seats to ransom over power.

imo majority rules is better than a small percentage of nutters having a major say due to the power plays MMP creates

Couldnt agree more

[d1 mule]

somewhat off topic, but god it pisses me off when students complain about not getting free money (allowances) from the government!!!

no 1 made you go to uni, it was your choice, your decision you could have been a tradie or worked in hospo etc....

quit ya bitching and get a part time job!!!

and at the end of the day once your qualified you SHOULD in theory earn more coin anyways...


basically HARDEN THE $&#$% UP

rant!

[d1 mule]

holy crap just got some elections mail


THE BILL AND BEN PARTY FTW!!!!!!!

[AE86less]

somewhat off topic, but god it pisses me off when students complain about not getting free money (allowances) from the government!!!

no 1 made you go to uni, it was your choice, your decision you could have been a tradie or worked in hospo etc....

quit ya bitching and get a part time job!!!

and at the end of the day once your qualified you SHOULD in theory earn more coin anyways...


basically HARDEN THE $&#$% UP

rant!

I have a part time job, between that and uni I work a 50 hour week (And on top of that I coach a school rowing squad for 12-14 hours a week) additionally I do surf lifesaving and volunteer at youth events for work experience. I work bloody hard but barely earn enough the scrape by (god knows how I fund my cars). On top of that I will finish uni with about $35k in debt and graduate into an industry that will be one of the first to collapse if this recession really gets serious.

Hows that for a little pressure? Sure no one made me choose to go to uni, but it really grates that I get no money while people who recieve even more support from their parents sit around and barely pass and get free money to do so. Take your 'I couldn't be bothered' rhetoric and get f*cked.


Also, I agree with Big Ben - United Future is looking pretty good!