Educate me about my 3SGTE (the catch can thread)

[TWSTD]

Ok - Now can somone fill me in... what are the following, marked in the pics below:

1 = ? (runs from head to air intake after filter - altho no PCV valve or anything. There is lots of oil residue in this line)
2 = ? (runs from ??? to air intake after filter)
3 = This is the crank case breather - complete with PCV valve - so what is 1?

4. Also i got a question about trans fluid. When i unplumb the transmission fluid cooler to get new lines made up for it do i run the risk of letting air into that system? Is it like a brake system where it needs to bled? If so how? And where do you refill trans fluid anyhow and whats the best stuff to use? (caldina GTT ST215 3SGTE).






Thanx.

AL

[Twolitre]

No. 1 is simply crankcase ventilation, ie. turbo sucks out vapours from the valve cover and combusts them
No.2 I can't see where it goes exactly but if it goes up to around the throttle body then chances are it will supply sufficient air to keep the engine idling when the throttle is closed.
Regarding the trans fluid, no it won't have to be bled because it is not a sealed system like the brakes because there is a breather on top of the gearbox down under your bov somewhere.
Hope that awnsers your questions

[fivebob]

1 = ? (runs from head to air intake after filter - altho no PCV valve or anything. There is lots of oil residue in this line)

It's a crankcase breather, no PCV valve is required cause it's connected to the suction side of the intake and therefore will always flow from the head to the intake. Should have some oil in it, but if there's oil in the Thottle body as well check you compressions.

2 = ? (runs from ??? to air intake after filter)

EDIT*** should have looked first before I answered
Goes to the Idle speed control valve, supplies filtered air for idle.

3 = This is the crank case breather - complete with PCV valve - so what is 1?

#3 is also a crankcase breather, only works when the manifold is in vacuum stops excessive oil going through the turbo and I/C

4. Also i got a question about trans fluid. When i unplumb the transmission fluid cooler to get new lines made up for it do i run the risk of letting air into that system? Is it like a brake system where it needs to bled? If so how? And where do you refill trans fluid anyhow and whats the best stuff to use? (caldina GTT ST215 3SGTE).

Shouldn't need bleeding, there's nothing about it in the Celica manuals I have, but I'd suggest priming the lines from the gearbox after you re-fit the lines to the cooler.

There's a level check/filler hole on the front of the gearbox that you fill through, when it overflows it's full.

Best stuff to use, don't know with gearbox oils unless you know someone who has changed to oil and found a it better or worse it's a suck it and see approach as each box is different. IMO anything that meets the standards (API-GL5) should be ok

[TWSTD]

OK.

So there are two crank case breather lines. Ive added filtration (catch can - well a fuel filter actually - see here: http://www.tgilmore.com/talon/catchcan.html ) into the smaller line that runs from the head to the intake plenum. Should I also be adding a catch can or some form of filtration in the other larger line (number 1 in pics above) to prevent oil being blown through the turbo and into my intercooler? I guess the alternative is vent this to atmosphere... altho then you often get that "oily" smell. All this in in prep for the front mount in installing BTW.

With line number 2 - I can just add a small filter to that line then right and do away with the long line going to the air intake pipe? (And yeah it goes into the Throttle Body).

Ta

AL

[TWSTD]

With line number 2 - I can just add a small filter to that line then right and do away with the long line going to the air intake pipe?
AL

So can i do this without any negative effects?

[Twolitre]

It really depends on exactly where it goes to, have you traced it back towards the engine? Try disconnecting it from that blue anodised pipe, put your hand or finger over the end of the pipe and see if your engine will run at idle, if it stalls then it's an air pipe and you will have to retain it, otherwise its just for emissions and you can put a catch can/filter on it

[TWSTD]

It runs to the throttle body. I assume therefore its as fivebob said, the feed to the idle speed valve.

Assuming i did pull it off the blue air intake pipe - surely i could put a small catch can type filter on it - that way its still gettin filtered air - just i am replacing that blue part as part of my engine bat re-arrangements - and it would be silmpler if i dont need to accomodate that hose in the new plans!

[fivebob]

All you should need to do is fit a filter to the Idle speed control valve and plug the intake pipe.

[TWSTD]

good - thats exactly what i had planned to do

thanx

[anthonym]

good - thats exactly what i had planned to do

thanx

Works fine with a small K&N breather filter, but in case you care it's very noisy .

[TWSTD]

haha thats ok - my sard air filter is pretty noisy at idle anyhow - sounds like a damn vacuume cleaner...

[TWSTD]

Just an update on the fuel filter air / oil separator that i implimented on the PCV line: (this type http://www.tgilmore.com/talon/catchcan.html )

Its been just over 2 weeks now. The filter has collected some oil in it (visible through the clear casing). I would estimate if it keeps filling at the same rate it will be about 6 weeks total before the base of the filter element will be sitting in oil. This may not be that significant, as air will be sucked throught the unaffected part of the filter a lot easier than oil will be sucked through it.

In regards to the 2nd crank case breather line that goes directly back into the air intake before the turbo, really this needs some form of catch can on it also right? Can you just use a breather filter directlly off the crank case and let it vent to atmoshere? or will the oily vapour clog this too quickly so it becomes innefective a passing the air and therefore increase pressure in the crank case? Also it may cause an oily smell right?

It seems that ya really need 2 catch cans per engine... altho i cant recall ever seeing 2 catch cans installed in a car...

AL

[anthonym]

I've always thought the line between the cam cover and the TB was an emission control device rather than a breather; fivebob is probably right though. Anyway, I took mine off and threw it away with no apparent problem (I used a 3/4" bung to seal the hole in the cam cover). The larger one running to the intake is the one that normally gives problems. Just putting a filter on it might be OK depending on how much crank case pressure there is, otherwise you can run it to a catch can either with a filter on it, or a line to the intake. If there is significant positive pressure in the crank case it is necessary to use the vacuum from the intake to evacuate it properly. If you do run a line to the intake the catch can needs to be properly baffled to seperate the oil from the air, otherwise it's a complete waste of time.

[TWSTD]

Im not sure i understand which line you removed nemesis?

The small vac line with the PCV (positive crankcase ventiliation) valve in it that runs from the cam cover and the intake plennum is the one i have the fuel filter catch can installed on. I found on my last toyota (7afte conversion) that if i vented this line to atmos and plugged the intake hole that without the positive suction provided by the intake that the crankcase did not breath adequately - resulting in oil being pushed through the turbo seals. In terms of catch cans / air oil separators, it seems to me that this is the most important of the 2 breather lines to run a catch can on (if you were only going to run a single catch can). This is because there is a LOT of oily vapour that gets sucked right into the intake plennum, resulting in lowered octane ratings of the fuel and carbon deposits on your pistons.

Its the other larger breather line that comes from the other side of the cam cover and returns to the air intake (between air filter and turbo) that in my case at present is un-filtered. I am toying with the idea of diconnecting this from the air intake and just adding a filter, altho i really am not sure how quickly the filter would clog up. It would be a much better idea to add a catch can here also. Once again i assume i would avoid the oily smell that venting the crankcase to atmos can cause if i plumbed this catch can back into the air intake prior to the turbo, right where the factory line runs. Ths would of course require me gettin another catch can though...

[TWSTD]

hope all that made sense... im really tired....

[anthonym]

Im not sure i understand which line you removed nemesis?

The small vac line with the PCV (positive crankcase ventiliation) valve in it that runs from the cam cover and the intake plennum is the one i have the fuel filter catch can installed on.

Yep that's the one I binned, no probs whatsoever for me with a highly modded 3SGTE, which is not to suggest it will work for you .

Its the other larger breather line that comes from the other side of the cam cover and returns to the air intake (between air filter and turbo) that in my case at present is un-filtered. I am toying with the idea of diconnecting this from the air intake and just adding a filter, altho i really am not sure how quickly the filter would clog up. It would be a much better idea to add a catch can here also. Once again i assume i would avoid the oily smell that venting the crankcase to atmos can cause if i plumbed this catch can back into the air intake prior to the turbo, right where the factory line runs. Ths would of course require me gettin another catch can though...

This is where people usually install a catch can o/a separator on the 3SGTE, the gen III has an o/a separator on this line stock.

[TWSTD]

Do you find you get an oily spell at all? - oh wait - urs is an MR2 right? so the engine aint in front so the fumes cant get in the cabin....

Re the larger vent - my gen 3.5 3sgte doesnt have any a/o sep on the larger vent that returns to the air intake prior to the turbo! bugger! maybe ill try pinch one off a ST205 or late SW20 then!

AL

[TWSTD]

sorry to drag up an old thread - but i thought i would let ppl know (in case someone wanted this info at some later stage) which direction i went re catch cans.

1) install a sealed catch can with filtration (steel wool) inline in the PCV line.

2) un-plumbed the other crankcase breather line and let it vent to atmosphere. This resulted in oily smell in the car - more so when windows open and you pull to a stop.

3) Then installed a catch can with breather filter attached on to the crank case breather line mentioned in 2) above. This eliminated 85-90% of the oily smell. Still depectable sometimes however.

[sidewz]

Hi guys

Im gonna drag it up again.. (like a year later)

When I was playing round with the factory bov, i found that it vents back into a little chamber built into the top of the airbox, which then feeds back into the idle intake. As far as I could tell, this chamber is completely separate to the freshly filtered air..........
Are yours all the same? (for those who still have an air box)?

I take it that linking the idle supply staight to the intake doesnt cause any probs? (ie, there must be a non return valve somewhere there)

Cheers
Dave