16v 4AG head on a 2/3T block

fangsport · Post by **fangsport** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:28 pm

does anyone know if the cylinders will line up with the chambers.

before anyone flames away and says 'just put a 4AG in', that isn't the point. i have a theory, that they may be close but if they fit the cam wheels would need to be changed to sprockets, and would make for some interesting looks as a 'classic' rally car!
the works teams had 16v heads, but the 4AG is ineligible due to age.

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:37 pm

intersting concept....but have a 2tg head and 4age blue top sitting beside each other on the bench at home, the 4age is a featherwieght!!!! its sooo tiny and small and stuff. same goes for blocks.

I will measure up this weekend if you wish.... Supose even a test fit, ive got a empty block sitting there two

First guess is that it wont be remotely possible, but who knows. I have heard of people putting tg heads on 4y blocks...but thats a different story...

anyway will see what i can find out with a tap measure...

Logan

crispy'86 · Post by **crispy'86** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:39 pm

Have you got any of your heads off any of your T motor's at the moment?? If so measure the lenght of the head and where the combustion chambers start and end on all 4 cyls. I will measure my 4age head the same way, or if you have a head off i can bring mine down to compare

fangsport · Post by **fangsport** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:41 pm

i've heard of 3/4KG and Mitsi heads being bolted to Ford OHCblocks so who knows?

crispy'86 · Post by **crispy'86** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:43 pm

Yep will measure up and get back to you too

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:41 am

Yip no worries, ive currently got 2 3tgteu heads off and 1 2tgeu head off, and also a spare bluetop head as well. so Ive got everything there to do the measuring, just got find some time(probably this weekend after exams.)

Logan

sleeektoy · Post by **sleeektoy** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:27 am

What i think would be of interest would be a check of the 3S-ge head on a T-series block, these are apparantly closer in the "family" lines than the "a" series engines

turbora28 · Post by **turbora28** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:22 pm

The 3S head is much shorter than the 3T block so nothing will line up. I was amazed how much smaller the 3S head is compared the the 3TG head.

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:51 pm

Ok, so basically it juts wont worrk, sorry

Anyway
1st measurement -overall from front of #1 squish (head gaket marks)to back of #4
2tg-390
4ag-340
distance between cylinders
2tg-20mm
4ag10mm
Overall length
2tg540
4age 390

the 4age is tiny! So might be best to investigate something else

Hope this helps...

fangsport · Post by **fangsport** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:10 pm

cheers guys. very much appreciated. now what about using the cams and boring some new seats and stems!!!

KinLoud · Post by **KinLoud** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:31 pm

Write/email/phone a factory team or someone who worked for a factory team. Ask them about the 16v head.
You never know - they might have one sitting around!

Ken
Tauo
021 408 863

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:12 pm

same story.....the cam would have to be custom made, the 4age cams would just be waaay to short. I was actaully reading and article just the other day about NZ rally back in the day, using a celica, and they had a couple of 16v 18rg (152E or something a rather, that was random stab in the dark guess....)... Anyway so there is aleast a couple of them floating around NZ....

Logan

P.S. Talk about kicking myself for not bookmarking it.............

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:29 pm

found it,,,,too much brain overload this week with exams and all...

hope that works....[/url]

I dotn think it says in the article but it was the 1982 rally nz winner i think....

another edit. lol

bit of research and 1982 was won by
Bjorn Waldegard & Hans Thorszelius, obviously not kiwis, so maybe my idea of some being around are not correct. but i hazard a guess there is.

Researching rally NZ is realy quite interesting....found out TA64 (3tgteu) celicas are elgiable for classic rally (well mainland )...mite have to build a WRC replica now

fangsport · Post by **fangsport** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:20 am

looked at the TA64 as a classic rally myself but they are hard to get in hart-top form and are so bloody heavy, a lightweight one is still well over 1000kg.

matt dunn · Post by **matt dunn** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:04 pm

fangsport wrote:looked at the TA64 as a classic rally myself but they are hard to get in hart-top form and are so bloody heavy, a lightweight one is still well over 1000kg.

How about the 3TGTE haed onto a 2T or 3T NA block.
Gets around the turbo rule.
Anyone know if it would be an advanrage over the std 3T head?

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:55 pm

This is another thing that i pondered long an hard, im currently doing the opposite on my motor, 2tg head of 3tg block, but i have two 3tg portd/polish heads, the major difference are the twin spark and the intake ports, which instead of being straight into cylinder like the 2tg 1&2, and 3&4 are grouped. Thus the do have a curve to negotiate, hence would create some swirl, now im not an expert (yet

) but swirl is supposeable a good thing, add that to the twin spark, and it may be good n/a.
Also the 3tg head has pretty much no valve guide 'meat/lump' to negotiate...

I think it could possible work quite well...
BUT
As far as i understand the rules bascially state that what ever you do, must have been able to be done back in the day of the car release. Bascially meaning that since the 3tgte didnt come out till early eights, you are restricted to heavy ta6x chassis, and cant bung the whole lot in a ke25 and call it a te27....

matt dunn · Post by **matt dunn** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:14 pm

Logan wrote:As far as i understand the rules bascially state that what ever you do, must have been able to be done back in the day of the car release. Bascially meaning that since the 3tgte didnt come out till early eights, you are restricted to heavy ta6x chassis, and cant bung the whole lot in a ke25 and call it a te27....

Oh, didnt actually know when the 3TGTE came out,
and i thought the rules stated the the engione must have the same number of cams as the engine originally fitted so was thinking a 3TGTE made non turbo into a TE70 corolla DX.

Logan · Post by **Logan** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:00 am

Ok, could be, i honestly dont know what the rules state excatly. Anyway just thought of one prob of running the 3tgteu head, the cames, The dizzy drive is off the intake cam and the factory cams are VERY mild. 2tg cames will swap straight in. I reckon the bet would be make a intake manifoldl, run DCOE carbs, carve the head up so a 2tg dizzy could be used(there is heaps of xtra meet on the head preventing a 2tg dizzy fitting, the head is too wide in that place..) I dont know if this info is any good to anyone...but who knows...

Logan

matt dunn · Post by **matt dunn** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:41 pm

Making it into a decent NA engine would mean new pistons and cam's etc anyway so you would run the 3TGTE dist.

TE_71 LEVIN · Post by **TE_71 LEVIN** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:05 pm

2T and 3T GEU's are so long because they were originally designed as pushrod engines, then came the brilliant idea of adding a timing case extension and running big long cam chain up to the Yamaha designed DOHC head. If you've got one to bits you'll see where hole in the block is for the cam and the pushrods, dunno if a 4AGE or 3SGE heads would fit although they also designed by Yamaha.

Toyspeed

16v 4AG head on a 2/3T block

16v 4AG head on a 2/3T block

specs 4ag head

4ag head

tale of the tape