Sorry, but more 4age Qs

[solberg Fan]

Hey, I know peolpe get pissed of answering the same type of questions, but I cant find a definate guide for the 4age. So here i am asking you people. Ive been doing a bit of home work on the 4age. Ive tryed the search option on this site but cant find any thing usefull to me. Im looking into all the diffrent 4age types for my ke70 (in my profile) witch is giving me death with the 4k. Ive added up what ive spent trying to fix it and its WAY TO MUCH. So my next option is the reliable 4age16v. 20 v looks to much work with disy and radiator plumbing. Ive looked up bill Sherwood's 4age page and tryed a few others including this AE92 page. But the problem is that they seem to be contradicting each other.
This is what i think is right:
- All RWD cars were fitted with Big port TVIS only (as no smallports had TVIS). Were all big ports 3 rib blocks? and all small ports 7 rib blocks with oil squirters for pistons?
- Only the FWD AE92 came with the 16v small port non TVIS. (making most power of the 16V?) Included oil squirters for the pistons, stronger seven rib block, 10.3:1 compression ratio (compared to 9.4:1 for all the others??), external oil return pipe from back of head?

If any thing is wrong, and im sure there will be, please corect me.
Im doing this to try and find the best engine for the car, witch is looking like the small port engine out of an AE 92 at the moment.
Thanks for your help. Im sure i will think of more questions as time goes on

[vvega]

ok here we go
all bluetops are the same :
small cranks,3 rib block,bigport and tvis

red tops there 2 different versions
the tvis redtop and the non tvis redtop

the tvis redtop is basically a redtop bottom end with no squirters
the pistons are also a little different been lower compression
the head is a bluetop basically with a red color
they also use a 3 wire dizzy

the you have the real redtop
100kw
smallport
oil squirters
no tvis
4wire dizzy = true crank angle sensor
higher compression


there are more changes than i have noted but ive tried to keep it fairly basic in understanding

v

[ee904age]

There is no factory RWD smallport, thats right. Early AE92's came with a TVIS Redtop, basically a Bigport head with the 7 rib smallport block but had no ext oil drain or oil squirters.

As far as I know the AE92 is the only source of the smallport engine, although they may have come in something like an AT*** Celica or similar.

[Rick]

Try this page:

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/phil.bradshaw/4AGE%20into%20RWD.htm

Also I might be selling my 4A-GE smallport soon, I am not 100% sure at this stage.

[ChaosAD]

Drop in a smallport and use one of those technotoy manifolds to fit a set of 20v quads.
Or get the T/B on the small port welded to the other end of the manifold.

Cant beat the revvyness of the bluetop though.

[solberg Fan]

then you have the real redtop
100kw
smallport
oil squirters
no tvis
4wire dizzy = true crank angle sensor
higher compression
v

Then thats what im leaning toward.

ChaosAD: Ill just get hold of a RWD manifold, should be easily enough to get hold off. If not ill do as you said. And im not looking for a balls out reving motor, more torque the better!
Thanks for that

[Rick]

A rwd manifold from a blue top 4A-GE will not fit on to a small port head.

[solberg Fan]

mmm, Point taken. Will have to change the ends around.
Is the small port MAP rather than afm?

[fangsport]

wang a set of sidies on the small port engine. a true RWD rally car needs the induction niose that only itb's can produce.

if i get the RWD 4ag i put a claim on, i'll probably use the redtop from my 92 and sidedraft it. simplicity, installation, more power.......all good

[Rick]

mmm, Point taken. Will have to change the ends around. :roll:
Is the small port MAP rather than afm?

The jap spec smallports are MAP.

[solberg Fan]

wang a set of sidies on the small port engine. a true RWD rally car needs the induction niose that only itb's can produce.

if i get the RWD 4ag i put a claim on, i'll probably use the redtop from my 92 and sidedraft it. simplicity, installation, more power.......all good

Simplicity? EFI seems simple.
Why do people stick carbs on 4age's? I dont get it. A carb has a venturi witch is basicly a restriction to the air flow. Why do it if you have EFI? Alot of people do it, as ive seen, so there must be some reasoning behind it. Other that a good induction sound.
Ive got a set of 40mm dellortos, are they big enough (if there is reasoning behind haveing them)?

[fangsport]

wang a set of sidies on the small port engine. a true RWD rally car needs the induction niose that only itb's can produce.

if i get the RWD 4ag i put a claim on, i'll probably use the redtop from my 92 and sidedraft it. simplicity, installation, more power.......all good

Simplicity? EFI seems simple.
Why do people stick carbs on 4age's? I dont get it. A carb has a venturi witch is basicly a restriction to the air flow. Why do it if you have EFI? Alot of people do it, as ive seen, so there must be some reasoning behind it. Other that a good induction sound.
Ive got a set of 40mm dellortos, are they big enough (if there is reasoning behind haveing them)?

without going to a Link/microtech etc ECU, any N/A engine will produce better power with carb tuning as the standard ECU generally dosn't like cam mods( profile, timing) ,fuel tuning etc.

[Flyboy]

But will converting from efi to carby make much difference? To a blacktop for example?

[matt dunn]

But will converting from efi to carby make much difference? To a blacktop for example?

Yeah will make a big difference,

it wont start very well,
will run like crap when it's cold,
will use more fuel, wil only be in tune on sunny days,

but on the bright side,
at some point it time it will make the same power as if it had the std ECU,
( but only at a certain rev point on a certain day at the specified temerature, the rest of the time it will be a dog)

My view on sidey's

Matt

[RedMist]

In addition to the very eloquent and accurate post from Matt. You'll also spend about the same, if not more on a decent set of carbs and manifold as opposed to a custom ECU.

I like to think of it this way. A carb has 3 jets. A main, accl and idle.
The Link combines the main and idle but then brakes it down into a total of 80 zones (plus 1 master) and accl is broken into an additional 4 jets. The Link then also interpolates (graduates the jets between those 80 settings).
If the intake temperature changes then the link adjusts the whole 80 settings to suit.
If the engine temperature changes then the link adjusts the whole 80 settings to suit.
If the barometric pressure changes (ie altitude) then the link adjusts the whole 80 settings to suit. (only on startup).
If its a cold start... you get the idea.

Had 45 DCOE factory matched webers on the Bunderson.... never even bothered to run them... (the floats can't take multi G impacts and I'm not about to screw with jets constantly).. ripped them off and went 20 valve injection and Link.