are overpowered front wheel drives a good thing?

[RomanV]

dont think an sw20 is a very good comparison in the wet.. FWD is a fair bit safer.. atleast you get your steering back when you ease off the power! as for spin, really dosent take much provoking in mr2

In the SW20, I can take off at a reasonable pace, with minimal wheel spin. If Im dumping the clutch or something, then yeah sure it will spin up. But only if I try - which is the difference. Although you are a bit screwed if you DO manage to get it sideways, it takes a fair bit of provoking to get to that stage.

But then again, my SW20 is NA I suppose.

[Stu-]

While my car isn't yet producing the power it should, I still think that FWD isn't all that bad if setup properly, especially in the dry. I think its just a case of knowing what to expect and the limits of the suspension etc. I've had early FWD starlets for years and don't have too many regrets handling wise although stock suspension setups are a reciepe for disaster with any reasonable hp. I do however regret not being able to have the additional fun factor of a rwd in being able to swing donuts/figure 8's etc but I built my car for straight line work and it should be able to perform in that regard. I nearly canned my project and swapped to a RWD car but I'm not a quitter and I'm hell bent on finishing the car and having as much fun with it as possible.

Jades car is a good example of tractable power, due to in part the smooth power curve it has. Even thru corners with a heavy foot it performs surprisingly well. I think it all comes down to knowing the setup and its limits.

[QikStarlie]

have to agree with stu. power delivery and suspesion setup has alot to do with it. gt starlets big turbo's and probably others all seem to suffer from power coming on all at once. witch makes for alot of the problems. i found changing inlet manifolds on my ep82 to a short runner design had a big effect on power delivery and traction, since the turbo and inlet manifold aren't coming into effect at the same time. turbo coming on first then the inlet coming into effect higher in the revs gave a nice progressive power delivery. yes probably a drop in torque down low, but if it isnt useable, it doesnt really matter. a good lsd will eliminate most of the torque steer also.. but when it breaks loose dont expect it to do anthing other than go straght ahead, not like a single spinner where it usually just bakes the insde wheel and you still have some controll...
having almost finished my kp60.. with a few test drives its a shitload of fun, but dont think i will part with the fwd anytime soon

[skoty]

understeer is safer than oversteer, thats why all factory cars understeer.
.

I dont know wether to believe that... car manufactures claim that however I think understeer is equally as bad if you think about it, turning a corner and travelling straight ahead off the road is possibly worse than spinning out and causing similar carnage.

[flygt4]

well i reckon its cheaper to replace front quarter panels and bumpers (undertseer)than to panelbeat rear quarters and straighten chassis'(oversteer)

[Mr Revhead]

nah, i dont mean wild out of control understeer.....

talk to a race driver, ask what they would prefer... a bit of understeer or oversteer? understeer is easier to control and drive around, and to pull it back....

if understeering, lift off... dab the brakes... it pull sback in...

if oversteering, lift off and it can flick the other way.... if you can get it back....

[streatracer]

overpowered anything is bad my definition of overpowered would be having power u cant use (get to the ground) if u can tune it to get traction with well thought out suspension mods, good rubber, and well placed boost threshold 160kw would probably be sweet as

[Erelyes]

well i reckon its cheaper to replace front quarter panels and bumpers (undertseer)than to panelbeat rear quarters and straighten chassis'(oversteer)

A toyspeed member who recently slid his AE111 headon into a bank after understeering is having to straighten the chassis.

Chassis isn't just back half of the car...

Heck the boot might even be easier to fix, don't have to work around an engine etc.

[Silent Knight]

Back when I had my Levin I 'understeered' it through a huge ditch, about 20 fenceposts, electric fence and half a tree. (Airbag didn't even go off after all of that )

So I can quite happily say I prefer things the other way around.....I'd prefer a bit of oversteer to understeer anyday. To me it feels like I still have more control over the car when I have oversteer. Understeer I feel absolutely powerless...

[pervert]

I can't understand why anyone would think oversteer is safer...understeer is childs play to correct as opposed to oversteer...

[Silent Knight]

I can't understand why anyone would think oversteer is safer...understeer is childs play to correct as opposed to oversteer...

I didn't say I think it's safer....to me it feels more controlable than understeer.

[Adamal]

I can't understand why anyone would think oversteer is safer...understeer is childs play to correct as opposed to oversteer...

I didn't say I think it's safer....to me it feels more controlable than understeer.

If you know how, yea. If you don't.... Well, at least with understeer, you know where the impact will be coming from to brace yourself.

But I'd rather over as well. Countersteering has just become a bit of a natural instinct.

[Erelyes]

Both of them, it's just experience.

Inexperienced drivers in a car when faced with an unfamiliar situation (loss of traction) will tend to go "WTF!" and jam on the brakes.

In a FWD, this equals sliding forward, no steering, unless you have ABS.
In a RWD, weather you have ABS or not, it equals sliding out

Therefore, FWD generally safer, especially ABS equipped ones.

That said...
An experienced driver in a FWD still has to 'get rid' of the understeer to make it round the corner. IE buttoning off gas, maybe straightening up a bit, gentle brakes, etc... basically same as an unexperienced driver, except they don't brake hard, they let the front wheels grip instead of brake.

Same driver in a RWD can 'guide' oversteer through the corner with countersteering and throttle control. AKA drift. Front wheels still grip, so we have steering, and weather the rear end 'yanks' the fronts away (spinning out) depends on the throttle control.

Another consideration... a 'family' car usually has spongy suspension, which makes drift more difficult to control... so if it's a soft suspensioned car, FWD would be safer. Any attempts to 'correct oversteer' in a soft-suspension RWD would have to be done delicately, or body roll would throw the car completely the other way.

[Mr Revhead]

ok, once again.....

ask a good race driver what they prefer:

an oversteering car

or an understeering car.

they will say understeering. its easier to drive around, and a slightly understeering car is faster than an oversteering one.

also when your driving through a corner and its undeersterring, i lift off or dab of the breaks brings it back....

with oversteer you not only need to do more, but you need more room.....

[Truenotch]

I'd rather oversteer anyday. I've done both and understeering just feels weird and imo is way more scary. With oversteer you know whats happening to your car but with understeer sometimes you dont realise thet your fronts arent gripping till its too late and you end up in trouble. Plus oversteer is waaay more fun

[Adamal]

ok, once again.....

ask a good race driver what they prefer:

an oversteering car

or an understeering car.

they will say understeering. its easier to drive around, and a slightly understeering car is faster than an oversteering one.

also when your driving through a corner and its undeersterring, i lift off or dab of the breaks brings it back....

with oversteer you not only need to do more, but you need more room.....

You're talking track here, we're talking roads. On a track, you've got about 3-4 lanes width to be in, wheres on a road, you've got a single lane to contend with.
In particular, the roads out to Piha, Scenic drive, which is around where I live. The roads are very narrow and windy with off camber corners that drop or lift. Trust me, you would NOT want to understeer at these corners. A bit of oversteering could be done (Especially in a short wheel base car like the MR2). But understeering will see you going off the road and possibly a cliff.

[Mr Revhead]

you are all still misunderstanding....

im not talking about full on front wheels locked up understeering, thats a lock up, not understeer!

im talking about understeering, turn into a corner, and it pushes, again not full on sledging etc. fact is a bit of understeer is safer, faster, and easier to correct than oversteer.

heres another example.... rally car, has a driveline failure, becomes rwd. loses heaps of time and is scary to drive. same car, another rally, this time fails into fwd. doesnt lose as much time, and is a lot easier to drive..... i beleive it was neil bates that had that.....

[Erelyes]

ask a good race driver what they prefer:

an oversteering car

or an understeering car.

they will say understeering. its easier to drive around, and a slightly understeering car is faster than an oversteering one.

you are all still misunderstanding....

This 'race driver'... what 'races' does he compete in? Rally or track?

Would a F1 driver rather his car was FWD? What about v8 supercars, what if they were fronters? Transam? Super speedway? Truck racing? (lol)

If FWD is faster.... I don't see as many FWD motorsport categories as RWD ones.

The front wheels only have so much grip. Yes a FWD may be safer. But faster? I don't believe that having the driveline weight half a metre further forward magically gives the front wheels oodles more grip.

Edit: I am kinda assuming that the FWD is understeering and the RWD oversteering. I know it may be vice-versa, but that's their inherent characteristics.

[Mr Revhead]

well when your sideways, your slow... FWD doesnt get as sideways.
different applications suit different things. i never said FWD was always faster.....

remember stock factory rwd cars are set up to understeer as well, just some have the power to alter that

[Adamal]

Oh I agree that FWD is safer. But to say its easier to handle depends on the ability and preference of the driver.

Due to the kind of driving/racing they've been brought up with and their driving style they've developed, some may handle oversteer better, some may handle understeer better.

I can bet you a pinch to a pound of goat shit that a drift enthusiest would be able to handle oversteer much easier than understeer in a grip race