Elections - which will you vote for..

[bad20v]

thats not reality buddy. its just the typical rich white thought that you are being sooo hard done by.

WTF?!?

Are you calling me 'rich' and 'white'? Get your facts right buddy! I ain't white and I worked bl#@dy hard to get where I am today!!!

[cheese]

and if every one of them has 1-3 nice cars and sky digital all from tax payers dollars then sign me up to the benefit again!

thats not reality buddy. its just the typical rich white thought that you are being sooo hard done by.

Ok, thats why the 'grasshopper' down the road from me got a hand-out for a $8000 falcon just so he can 'try' to go to job interviews and 'maybe' get a job. And that not the only case I have heard of!
And yes I have been on the benefit as well, was on it for two months before I got sick on sitting on my arse waiting for Work & Income to find me a job. I just went labouring for Allied Work Force instead, something alot of people on the benefit should do, but are too lazy to do so!!! Its so much easier for them to collect the benefit and dodge getting a job!

there we go, thats more realistic than what you were first saying, and i totally agree with ya - that is poor form by the government

[cheese]

thats not reality buddy. its just the typical rich white thought that you are being sooo hard done by.

WTF?!?

Are you calling me 'rich' and 'white'? Get your facts right buddy! I ain't white and I worked bl#@dy hard to get where I am today!!!

nope im not calling you white or rich, im saying that that is a typical rich white mentality. but yes when you see cases of free handouts for cars and luxery items its gotta piss ya off.

[rustirolla]

i'm far from rich and im just as much maori as the next one but i am fully agreeing here with bad20 ay.

i came from a town where there was over 50% of them on the dole or DPB or 'sickness' benefits and they all had the latest and greatest of everything. but because i managed to pull my ass outta that place so i didnt turn out like that and tried to make something of myself just to hav the government take it all away in taxes and giv it back to the people who don't wanna try for themselves. na i reckon make those ones suffer lol. sounds harsh but its the truth

[bad20v]

thats not reality buddy. its just the typical rich white thought that you are being sooo hard done by.

WTF?!?

Are you calling me 'rich' and 'white'? Get your facts right buddy! I ain't white and I worked bl#@dy hard to get where I am today!!!

nope im not calling you white or rich, im saying that that is a typical rich white mentality. but yes when you see cases of free handouts for cars and luxery items its gotta piss ya off.

Damn Right!! I see we are on a similar page now.

I have a mate that's on the DPB and his motto is:

"I Need a 'Hand-Up' not a 'Hand-Out' to Succeed"

You have to agree and admire that.

[Adamal]

As far as I see, most people with high paying jobs have worked hard to get there, so for all their trouble, they end up having to dish out more to the government for the more they earn?

Hardly seems like an insentive to work hard to become well paid, does it? It's not like they get more back from the government for the money they have to fork over.

[rustirolla]

I have a mate that's on the DPB and his motto is:

"I Need a 'Hand-Up' not a 'Hand-Out' to Succeed"

You have to agree and admire that.

people with that kinda attitude, i admire. its like my father, he is permanently on an invalids benefit because he broke his back 3 times and has a heart condition and he would be an insurance and acc nightmare for any company. its not his choice to be on that, he used to have his own glazier company and used to ride motorbikes and go hunting every weekend. but these people who jus bludge our taxes coz their too lazy bug me so y should we miss out for those who dont want to help themselves? i say national in, and bludgers out

[Alycia]

I have a mate that's on the DPB and his motto is:

"I Need a 'Hand-Up' not a 'Hand-Out' to Succeed"

You have to agree and admire that.

people with that kinda attitude, i admire. its like my father, he is permanently on an invalids benefit because he broke his back 3 times and has a heart condition and he would be an insurance and acc nightmare for any company. its not his choice to be on that, he used to have his own glazier company and used to ride motorbikes and go hunting every weekend. but these people who jus bludge our taxes coz their too lazy bug me so y should we miss out for those who dont want to help themselves? i say national in, and bludgers out

OMG For once I agree with you!

Its like the term 'Chronic Fatigue'

There are people I know who will go to their doctor every 6mths in order to get a doctors cert.

Its bs!

[rustirolla]

'chronic fatigue'?? WTF?? lol

[cheese]

similar page now.

yup i think i mentioned in an early post in the thread that we need to keep the benefit system etc just certain situations need to be monitored more closely so people dont rip the system off.

and even though you say they got 8000 handed to them for a job to 'maybe' get a job. i believe there are strict terms behind that money, whether its paying it back or you find a job within a couple of months otherwise you work for where we tell you to work... A few probably slip thru the cracks but i'd say most of them have a deeper story behind them.

like my mate who has been unemployed well over a year, he got a business grant - $11k? you can only apply for it if you've been unemployed for a year or more, which isnt fair on people that have come out of work and wouldnt mind starting their own business. its unfair but in the end its getting him off the benefit for good (otherwise that 11k would just be handed to him each year)...and he had to buy all the nessacery items for the business and turn up to meetings with receipts and show progress.

its a hard thing to monitor because most people will treat any hand out with respect and use it wisely but you'll always have people who see it like they just won an instant kiwi.

as of what you were saying south auckland - otara. much of the population are pacific islanders - i dont know the stats, but some work hard and some prefer the benefit lifestyle.
They get easier access to the country than say the peeps from south africa who is rated on a points system with qualifications and how much money they have etc. I believe everyone should go through the same points system, or possibly not be alligable for the benefit for a good few years at least

[bogjob_kp60]

If i was old enough to vote i would vote labour
I seriously have no problem with them what so ever.
I have serious problems with national though. Why dont you look back at when National was in power. Would you want that again? Would you really want a weasel as your leader?

Im a middle class whitey and i actually support alot of the treaty stuff because to cut a long story short alot of maori are economically disadvantaged today because all of their familys land was confiscated. You need land to make money so with no land you got no money for your kids, your kids wont have any money for their kids, their kids want have any money or land for their kids. its a cycle of poverty which is hard to get out of.

I support the maori foreshore and seabed because they were promised it as their possetion in article 2 of the treaty.

White New Zealand has been breaking the treaty promise since the day it was created.

I guess you dont care about all that but what you will care about is if Don sticks to the promises he makes.

I have my doubts

PS western springs speedway issue relates to local government

[Alex B]

Why do you callin him a weasel? Yea im sick of the treaty shiz put a date on it and let it be done. I guess thats my opionion because thats how i was brought up, school tried to tell me otherwise but i guess schools have to be PC dont they. I like the idea of One people not the Them and Us sorta thing thats going on at the moment.

[Cahuna]

I don't expect for a single moment that the politicians are actually going to keep their promises, that just doesn't happen . My problem with the Treaty settlements is that the people who need it don't appear to get the money. Sure the Maori have been wronged (but IMO opinion they are hardly lily-white - they did to the Moriori's exactly what the Pakeha did to them) and are currently over-represented in unemployment, crime and other key socio-economic areas. Take the Tainui settlement. This was supposedly a landmark settlement of $x (can't remember the exact amounts), as far as I can tell they spent up large on purchasing hotels and sports teams and the average Maori household in Huntly or Ngaruawhahia who actually need assistance appear to have received absolutely zilch. And why should a poor Maori family be treated any differently to a poor Pakeha family who's ancestors immigrated here 150+ years ago? How about all the Maoris who can't identify their iwi (so-called Urban Maori) and get nothing out of the settlements? With my Maori heritige I learned at age 6 that the school got extra funding because I had Maori blood, at Uni I registered as being part-Maori and received preferential entry into some courses (not that I needed it, I would have breezed in on my grades alone anyway), but why should the government have provided extra opportunities to me simply because of my colour?

I'm with Bad20v and everyone else, the Hand-Up not Hand-Out attitude is what we should be supporting and investing in. Treat all NZers equally, don't give preferential treatment, give the money to those who need it so that they can get back on track.

How about inequalities in access to government services based on earnings? IIRC I recently read that if husband and wife both earn $20k per year then they can get childcare subsidies but if the husband earns $40k then they can't? I earn enough to have part of my income taxed at the top tax rate (39%) yet with my financial commitments with mortgage, insurances, expenses getting to work etc (ie: costs of fending for myself rather than relying on handouts) I can't afford the fee to visit the doctor if I get the flu whereas someone on a benefit gets to free of charge. I don't want preferential treatment or anything, I just want the SAME treatment.

IMO you get out of life what you put into it, if you want something enough you can make it happen regardless of where you start. I suspect the reason more people from Otara don't rise up, go to university and earn lots of money has more to do with the culture they are raised in (family, friends, teachers etc) than lack of opportunities - they do not aspire to getting an education and a good job.

Cheese, it's nice to know that there are some government departments who are occasionally getting things right in giving people a helping hand, I just wish they got more publicity about the good they do. The one group I hate more than politicians are the media - they tell you whatever fits their agenda, anything else doesn't get publicised. They expect to be able to create and manipulate your opinions on issues. Look at how much press the failings in each government department get in the news compared to how much good those departments do. I'm just about ready to switch off the TV and avoid newspapers for the next 8 weeks just to avoid the BS that is going to be written.

[cheese]

yep the media sure is powerful and they keep it topical. they do it quite well. an example away from politics, remember last year when there was a mass week of vicious dog attacks. the media made it out to be an epidemic but in reality it was just another typical week for the dog control. it happens with everything else, just depends whats topical.
a lot of you say you want the 'treaty bs' over and done with because youre sick of hearing about it. lets thank that for the media again.

and good work from bogjob, im glad to hear someone cares about more than themselves. its all about helping to break a cycle which labour is working towards.

[THA SHZ]

and even though you say they got 8000 handed to them for a job to 'maybe' get a job. i believe there are strict terms behind that money, whether its paying it back or you find a job within a couple of months otherwise you work for where we tell you to work... A few probably slip thru the cracks but i'd say most of them have a deeper story behind them.

Id love to agree with u there , but the simple truth is tht 2 many people know how to wrk the system and get good money out of the benefit , the more kids they have equals the more money they get , hence they have multiple kids to get more money and it dont go on the kids .
And the benefit does pay for their cars unfortunately , i wrk out south auckland and they cum into my shop every day , and i have seen them with cars u could only dream of ownin , take 1 for instance , he had an evo 7 tht the benefit was payin for and it had 19 inch wheels and he cums in to get a written quote on tyres and stuff payed for buy , u guessed it mine and ur tax payin dollars

[Malcolm]

I just want to echo what a lot of others have already said
I'm not adverse to my taxes going to support those who need a "hand up". I'm glad that when I broke my foot and was unable to work a few of years ago that ACC paid for it, that when my mum fell seriously ill a couple of months before then that her stay in ICU and the ongoing dialysis treatment was all free.

What I find difficult to fathom, however, is that after about 5 years of full time employment, during which time I estimate I would have paid around $50,000 in income tax, now that I'm a student I'm ineligible for a student allowance, and that I have to pay $2,000 a semester in fees.
Why? I'm under 25, and even though I don't live with my parents, since they earn more than a combined total of $63K a year (which is a miniscule limit, how many seperated parents earning less than $31,500 before tax, living in Auckland, paying mortgages, can afford to support their children who are living away from home?) Sure I could get a student loan, that would be $16,000, plus if I got living expenses of say $150 a week over 4 years would be $31,200, so that's a loan nearing $50,000 (probably more as I'd have to borrow for $400 of text books and other course related costs per semester). Paid off at $100 p/w when I start working again, assuming no interest would take 10 years to pay. Of course that $150 p/w living expenses wouldn't get me far when even public transport from Henderson to the city is more than $10 a day, or $50 p/w, and to rent a single room in Auckland is likely to cost atleast $100 p/w.....
But I digress, fortunately I am still able to work in a very well paid job for a few hours a week, and have a partner who is willing to support me during the whole thing (as I did for her a couple of years ago), but if it wasn't for this I'd pretty much be f*cked, and would have to resort to making P in my bedroom to get by!

Basically it really pisses me off that while someone sitting on their ass because they can't be bothered getting a job can get money to do nothing, while I can't get a cent to help me go to university!

The fundamental downside of a left-wing government is the need for them to have large amounts of money to throw around. This leads to things which do not impress me one bit, ie blatant revenue collecting by Police when their time would be better spent making inroads into the real issues, such as violent crime, burglaries etc.

Furthermore, I feel the only way for this country to move forward into better racial integration is for equal treatment for all citizens, regardless of race. I hate the way that people refer to Don Brash as "racist" for suggesting that it's time that claims under the treaty of Waitangi were filed and resolved, rather than continuing on into infinitum. Yes, there are reasons why some Maori require further assistance due to socio-ecomonic reasons, living in poverty, being brought up in broken homes etc, but there are also pakeha, pacific island, and even asian people in the same circumstances, but they're not elidgible for the same assistance because their ancestors weren't stolen from/oppressed in this country?

Anyway, that's my rant. I don't think Helen Clark is a bad Prime Minister, I think she is a very intelligent woman who has done a good job, however I don't buy many promises made by existing governments as to what they will do if they're re-elected, especially when they've already had a long time to do so. This doesn't mean I believe any moreso what opposition MP's will say to get themselves elected, but from a fundamental stand point I'm a center-right person, and will be voting accordingly

[bad20v]

Who are you going to vote for??

[CEvans]

i would probaly vote labour or greens due to labour going to give more apprenticeships and not everyone wants uni and a loan a?
allso think that don brash is too radical and inexperienced at the moment but hay thats my opion.

[RS13]

Shit, I'd vote for the Hoff!!

i suppose if youre rich and white then sweet as! go national!

Yup!

[Adamal]

bad20v, you deserve a freakin medal