How to get some SERIOUS power outta an ST185 3S-GTE

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How to get some SERIOUS power outta an ST185 3S-GTE

Postby Kevorkian » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:17 am

This is the part where everyone tells me how to do it :P

Everyone keeps telling me that the gt-four was never a monster power house and that no matter how much work I do to it, it just will never be a super powerfull car. Well F&%K them. I want to prove them wrong, I dont care if it costs me 30k and takes me 5 years to do it. I'll show those bastards!!!

My list of things to get done so far are as follows.

custom extractors connected to 2.5" straight through piping with no cat, heading out a decent muffler.
a decent boost gauge and bleed valve and bov.
front mount intercooler so I can up the boost a fair smack.
after those few bits i'll probably change the suspension, then brakes so I wont kill myself in a hurry.
then i'm not really too sure what else to do. I'd like to go crazy and have the engine rebuilt but i'm sure that is going to take like, 6 months to get done. I've even contemplated looking around for somebody to do a 4wd to RWD conversion just for shits and giggles... DRIFT SPEC GT-FOUR!!! :D

What are some other things I can do to get some serious horsies outta the beast?
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Postby slighty_sykotic » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:10 am

Whats the internal's like on those moters?

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Postby Wildcard » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:16 am

Step #1.
Search.

Gen2 3SGTE modifications have been covered quite extensively on this board :)
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Postby AJz » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:11 pm

have you had a good look on the likes of http://www.celicatech.com/forums/index.php

I know there is quite a few high powered 4wd, and fwd Turbo Celicas on there.
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Postby peas » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:00 pm

Might get some decent power out of it but it will still weigh a shitload. Look for some excess and do the Jenny Craig thing... better response and use less gas.

http://www.mrcontrols.com is a pretty good site for the 3S-GTE its all SW20 based but same shit.
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Postby CozmoNz » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:16 pm

simple, get anthonym to build you an engine.

might cost a shltload, but man, shell fly :D.

or put a TT 1uz in.... im sure shed go pretty quick then, despite the weight.
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Re: How to get some SERIOUS power outta an ST185 3S-GTE

Postby Lanius » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:33 pm

Kevorkian wrote:This is the part where everyone tells me how to do it :P

Everyone keeps telling me that the gt-four was never a monster power house and that no matter how much work I do to it, it just will never be a super powerfull car. Well F&%K them. I want to prove them wrong, I dont care if it costs me 30k and takes me 5 years to do it. I'll show those bastards!!!


First thing, is a rebuild. If you're talking serious power, you need to be 100% certain that your engine's internals are up to the stress you're talking about. Rebuild with new gaskets, new pistons, rings etc. Discuss with your mechanic / whoever does the rebuild for you, what your options regarding aftermarket parts are. You want quality forged pistons and a good headgasket at the very least.

My list of things to get done so far are as follows.

custom extractors connected to 2.5" straight through piping with no cat, heading out a decent muffler.


You may want to sit down and make an actual goal of how much torque / power you want your car to produce. Its all well and good saying you want "heaps" of power, but you need to be definitive, as that is how you will end up deciding what parts to use. For the amount of power it sounds like you're talking about, I'm not entirely sure that 2.5" would be sufficient.

a decent boost gauge and bleed valve and bov

Someone may need to correct me on this, but afaik, you don't need both the BOV and the bleed valve ... its one or the other. Again, for the amount of power you're describing, a high pressure BOV would be best (eg: Sard R2D2 is rated at around 30psi).

front mount intercooler so I can up the boost a fair smack.
Front mounts are nice etc, but again, unless you have a definitive mark for the power you're after, you can't say for sure if you require this. EG: the WTA intercooler off an ST185 RC, or an ST205 WRC (not sure if standard 205's have the same cooler) is enough to handle up to around 350hp with moderate mods. Anything more than that, and you may need to investigate options for front mounting. Don't forget, front mounts = money, and lag.

after those few bits i'll probably change the suspension, then brakes so I wont kill myself in a hurry.
I'm glad to see you included brakes and suspension in your plans ;) Whiteline in Australia sell a very highly recommended suspension upgrade kit for ST185s which includes shocks, springs, strut braces and sway bars. The parts are available individually as well as in a package. The rear sway bar is adjustable, and is apparently one of the best you can get.

then i'm not really too sure what else to do. I'd like to go crazy and have the engine rebuilt but i'm sure that is going to take like, 6 months to get done.
As I said before, define the amount of power you're after, and you will know if you can get away with not having to rebuild. Rebuilding should be the first step in producing the big numbers on a ~15 year old engine.

Last (but DEFINITELY not least), don't ever look past a good aftermarket ECU. Doesn't have to be the best on the market, but you get what you pay for with ECUs, and as the ECU is the "brain" of the package, it should be done first, and done right.

GL :)
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Postby Al » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:48 pm

How fast do you want to go?
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Re: How to get some SERIOUS power outta an ST185 3S-GTE

Postby wde_bdy » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:59 pm

Lanius wrote:
a decent boost gauge and bleed valve and bov

Someone may need to correct me on this, but afaik, you don't need both the BOV and the bleed valve ... its one or the other. Again, for the amount of power you're describing, a high pressure BOV would be best (eg: Sard R2D2 is rated at around 30psi).

GL :)


BOV and bleed valve are TOTALLY unrelated.

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Postby anthonym » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:40 pm

CozmoNz wrote:simple, get anthonym to build you an engine.

might cost a shltload, but man, shell fly :D.

Fsck no, I know nofink, all that money I wasted and all I needed to do was send my CT26 to turbo777 and then head down to Christchurch for a tune and I'd have had 450hp for sooo much less. I could have had an M3 with all the money I'd have saved :(.
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Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:47 pm

use the search feature, myself and many others with decent knowledge of the 3sgte have answered this question numerous times, probably all of them to people who were all talk and no action.
The big things I'd suggest are:

Metal headgasket
Decent aftermarket turbo (thinking garret GT series BB or similar)
Aftermarket computer
Well designed 3" exhaust
Front mount intercooler with intelligently routed piping
Larger injectors + fuel pump
This alone will run you about $10k
The stock bottom end should be fine if the ECU is well tuned and you keep the boost below 20psi.

Also do as much weight reduction as possible, just stripping the interior and such from my st185 took 0.4s off the 1/4 mile, and turned it into a completely different car to drive.
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Re: How to get some SERIOUS power outta an ST185 3S-GTE

Postby thaphatty » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:17 pm

purple_beasty wrote:
Lanius wrote:
a decent boost gauge and bleed valve and bov

Someone may need to correct me on this, but afaik, you don't need both the BOV and the bleed valve ... its one or the other. Again, for the amount of power you're describing, a high pressure BOV would be best (eg: Sard R2D2 is rated at around 30psi).

GL :)


BOV and bleed valve are TOTALLY unrelated.

Callum


I thought by bleed valve he would have been talking about bleeding some boost off the actuator line to raise it?
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Postby Kevorkian » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:31 am

Thanks for all your opinions guys, first things first though... I have to hunt down a cheap run about car so I can comfortably give the Celica to the mechanic for a while.

MmMmMm.. I cant wait to get started :D
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Postby Tranquil » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:50 am

All_Fours wrote:
Also do as much weight reduction as possible, just stripping the interior and such from my st185 took 0.4s off the 1/4 mile, and turned it into a completely different car to drive.



o0 almost half a second? Gosh thats allot... Care to explain how you managed that?
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Postby Santa'sBoostinSleigh » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:52 am

Tranquil wrote:
All_Fours wrote:
Also do as much weight reduction as possible, just stripping the interior and such from my st185 took 0.4s off the 1/4 mile, and turned it into a completely different car to drive.



o0 almost half a second? Gosh thats allot... Care to explain how you managed that?

i believe he already did.....
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Postby Tranquil » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:17 pm

Santa'sBoostinSleigh wrote:
Tranquil wrote:
All_Fours wrote:
Also do as much weight reduction as possible, just stripping the interior and such from my st185 took 0.4s off the 1/4 mile, and turned it into a completely different car to drive.



o0 almost half a second? Gosh thats allot... Care to explain how you managed that?

i believe he already did.....


An explanation would require detail, i fail to see any mention of details.

Did he remove the backseat and passenger seat? Or are we talking serious strippage e.g, pull the dash, carpets, sound deadening tar, door trim, electric window gear, locks, boot release cable, cut the floor pan, remove all unnecessary wiring (e.g for the rear demister), remove the fuel level meter from the tank, modify (drill) the feeder and primary pump bracket, etc etc.

Even will all the above i fail to see how that would net .4 seconds.

Anyhoo a claim of .4s reduction in ET is nothing more than a claim without citing specifics. This includes details of track conditions (temp & baro pressure) weight of fuel, tyre pressure's, was there more VHT on the track between the runs? ET = a crappy measurement. What were the top speeds for both runs? Also im assuming you were using launch control for super consistent starts.
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Postby peas » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:39 pm

Im not trying to quantify the 0.4s claim but have youy ever had a close look inside a GT-Four? There is a lot of shit in them, and most of its good old Toyota heavy build quality. Weight and cooling are these cars main setbacks, power isn't a terribly hard thing to extract from a 3S-GTE.
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Postby mister2 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:50 pm

Fsck no, I know nofink, all that money I wasted and all I needed to do was send my CT26 to turbo777 and then head down to Christchurch for a tune and I'd have had 450hp for sooo much less. I could have had an M3 with all the money I'd have saved .


I'm not defending turbo777's '450Hp' claims, but I'd rather you didn't insinuate things about our tuning ability, we were happy enough to share all that we had done with Marks car including multiple dyno plots. All we did was tune the car, it is DEFINITELY not a stock 3SGTE, we never made any claims to the contrary.

Anyway, to see our results with 3SGTE's check http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=33562&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

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Postby anthonym » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:52 pm

mister2 wrote:I'm not defending turbo777's '450Hp' claims, but I'd rather you didn't insinuate things about our tuning ability, we were happy enough to share all that we had done with Marks car including multiple dyno plots.

Actually no, apparently not, Tukumi has gone off in a sulk without answering valid questions. It is YOU that are insisting that the turbo is a CT-26 despite admitting having had nothing to do with the rebuild and not having provided any specifications at all, not even the compressor specs, for the work done. As has been noted there are valid reasons for people to be sceptical. Not answering reasonable questions makes you look as silly as *GTT and renders you equally ripe for ridicule (IMO) :D.
All we did was tune the car, it is DEFINITELY not a stock 3SGTE, we never made any claims to the contrary.

All I care about is what the turbo is, genuinely, if it is a CT-26, as fitted to the SW20 or ST85, I'll be the first to offer you major props as this would be a significant breakthrough as well as sticking it to the yanks, which I would enjoy even more than pulling your chain :P.
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Postby mister2 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:18 pm

Fair enough. The next time the car is around the shop we will have to take some pictures - what identifying marks do you look for? I was reasonably certain it had a big 'CT-26' stamped on the compressor cover however from what I gather its the exhaust side you're more interested in? As far as I know it has been rebuilt with a non-ceramic exhaust wheel and garrett compressor wheel. You might be right, the exhaust side may have been bored for a larger wheel.

Lol, as for the not answering reasonable questions... well running a workshop is the priority at the moment, once answering questions on toyspeed becomes it we'll let you know haha :lol:

Cheers!

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