Rebuilding 4age 16v

[NA Drifter]

I'm planning for rebuilt a small port 4AGE 16v. Got the motor and taken apart already. It will be 1/2 street driven and 1/2 track use for my AE86 and have it as my "reliable" motor. Hope to get around 100kw at wheels or maybe abit more in N/A. Hope to give me no trouble to run all day long at D1NZ events. Will be running on pump gas.

Got 0.8mm TRD gasket for it and going to get ARP rod bolts and head studs for it.
Thinking to get some Wiseco piston for it too. Plan to get it running on 20v quads setup and also wanting to get some cams for it. I'm looking at around 272 duration and 8mm lift cams and get adjustable cam gears.

I heard that using the silvertop conrod is a better choice than std smallport redtop rod? How about blacktop rod? Any other inter changeable parts that's better than std? Also advised to get blacktop oil pump for it.

So yeah, any tips will be great. I haven't got a big budget for it, so I trying to keep cost to minimum, hence not aiming for mega power.. just something abit better than std.

thanks.

...Keith...

[crnkin]

well the smallport rods are massive, silvertop are slightly smaller, and blacktop are tiny, for 100kw atw your looking 130kw fly, and thats what blacktops are factory, so id guess get the blacktop rods for super high revs they bolt straight in. theres some on trademe at the moment.

On garage dori check out the na dyno graphs, some guy ran 9mm lift (unknown duration) for 105kw atw, and 11mm lift (unknown duration) for 120kw at on standard redtop with wiseco pistons, highish comp (11.0:1?) and an aftermarket computer.

wicked power for a stock engine!

id say keep the stock pistons, maybe the blacktop ones (trademe right now! 100 bucks for pistons+rods!), run an aftermarket comp with a good tune, quad throttles, 9mm lift and 272/6 duration cams, blacktop rods and pistons, and go get everything balanced (bout 500-800 bucks) and you should be able to run 110kw atw all day long on 96, and rev out to at least 9g,

anyways, i can dream, but thats what id do if i wasnt a silly turbo 4age boy

[ChaosAD]

Nup, my engines simmilar to what u wnt to do.
DONT use the blacktop rods, go 4 the silvertop ones.
full engine ballance is about $250ish
Youll want 10.5:1 at an absolute minimum but will get more power with a higher CR.
Definately go for arp rod bolts, but dont waste ur money on the studs unless ur planning a lot of rebuilds. They just arent neccesary, just go for a new set of genuines.
But if you want to rev it 2 9 G youll be needing frequent rebuilds.

[crnkin]

where bouts do you get your engine balances done chaos?

[Mr Revhead]

check your small port rods, the later engines used the same rods as the silvertop. and for your application they are perfect.
blacktop rods are nearing their limits at 85-9000 rpm and i wouldnt use them.

chaos is correct about the ARP gear, just use the rod bolts. genuine head bolts are cheap and dont give any issues.
stock pistons with a TRD head hasket will probably give you all the compression you need. they also come in 0.5mm if you want to bump it up more. imo wiseco pistons will be a waste of cash for your application.

if you want power to 9k you will need cams.
4ages can do 9000rpm easy if built right. pay extra attention to balancing and use silvertop clearances (or talk to your engine builder)
if you want to hold 9k all day then as chaos said you will need to look at rebuilds every so often.

with care and attention and the right cams i think your goal is easily attanable. the biggest cost for the internals will be the cams

[NA Drifter]

cheers for the reply...
The engine I got is 1989, so not sure if the rod same as silver top... so I'm guessing.. no.. due to the year??

So stay with std piston, and just get new rings for it?
If staying with stock redtop ecu, i think it only rev to around 8k? or maybe less... 8K is enough if the power is there...

so, only come back down to cams.... best price got so far are around $600+ for the pairs

[MetalupYoAss]

I dont know how the stock ecu would handle increaced compression ratio... you might have to do cold start injector trick?

[Mr Revhead]

the stock ecu will handle the increase from just a gasket.
even mild cams.

[ezy10s]

youve got the engine apart there Keith: Post up a pick of those rods so we can let you know whaqt you got there.

[Mr Revhead]

oh yeah forgot about that, beign an 89 itll have the earlier thicker rods

[ChaosAD]

Nup. Stock ecu dont like extra compression. Im running 11:1 compression ratio with stock ecu and had to back the ign timing off to 5-8 degrees with 96 octane. Now it goes slower than stock! The top end copuld do with a lot more advance, but to get that much advance with the stock ecu the bottem end will ping like a motherf**er!

Def need a new ecu, specially if going with cams. even an apexi safc wont b enough.

I hink the guys that did the balancing were franklin engineering but cant remember. They used a special computer balancer anyways.

silvertop rods are the ones to go for as blacktop rods are well known to stick a leg out if you change 2 the wrong gear.

[NA Drifter]

here is the pic of the pistons.... the only one i got... and very dirty...

http://mail.garagedori.com/tmp/attachments/43289/read/piston.jpg

yeah, was thinking to trick it with SAFC, else I might go after market ECU... might give MegaSquirt a go or Haltec.

[Mr Revhead]

what ecu have you got chaos?
if youv got a blue top thats quite an uncrease over stock, wheras a TRD gasket on a small port wont boost it by as much as yours (youv got a big port right?)

[crnkin]

here is the pic of the pistons.... the only one i got... and very dirty...

http://mail.garagedori.com/tmp/attachments/43289/read/piston.jpg

yeah, was thinking to trick it with SAFC, else I might go after market ECU... might give MegaSquirt a go or Haltec.

thats odd, you have high comp pistons with the mega gze rods, which came on the low comp engines (at least i think, just bought some ae101 rods and had high comp pistons :S )

[NA Drifter]

i though all the 16v 7 ribs have same crank?.. including ze motor?

[ChaosAD]

Yea, basically bluetop everything with a silvertop bottem end, aftermarket 16v pistons and a few bits and pieces to make it more reliable.
Should pull like a mofo once I get the megasquirt back in

It is interesting to note that all the late model, large crank pin cranks-shafts are identical, i.e., same Toyota part numbers. However in reviewing the maintenance manuals, Toyota calls out much tighter inspection tolerances in the last generation 20 valve. The obvious reason would be to keep parasitic friction and vibrations to a minimum due to the difference in max engine speed that the 20 valve engines were allowed to turn versus the 16 valve ones.

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/4A-GE%20Crankshaft%20-%20Detailed%20Specifications%20and%20Analysis.html

[gtcielo]

where are you geting ur arp rod bolts from

[Mr Revhead]

many many places do them, i can supply for around $100 iirc

[Peradx]

what about integra type R pistons?