20v mods for N/A power

[old schooler]

ok, this might be silly question, but who out there has tuned the 20 Valve (be it black or sivertop) for 200+hp N/A?

Im fully aware that a turbo would be both cheaper and produce more power, but turbos arent my thing.
besides, bragging rights for a win to Toyota over Honda N/A cant be that bad.

The mods im aware are more than just ya averave exaust, air filter upgrade. Cams like 300 dration, 9mm+ lift, link computer, stronger internals ect ect are needed, but who out there has completed these mods, and what results have been got?

Or am i have to go it alone and be the first to have a red line of 5 figures?

[NA Drifter]

4age 16v can bet a honda civic with 1600 vtec...

done it on 1983 ae86 vs 1996 civic.. both have exhaust and filter done.. else std. toyota is faster. same result in 3 runs

[CozmoNz]

FWD vs RWD, and Weight differences (AE86 arnt heavy).

but anyway, http://www.todaracing.com

[RedMist]

My 16 valve is close on 200hp at the flywheel. There is a blacktop here in CHCH pulling 212hp. Its actually a very cheap engine.

A bit of head work, Kelford Rally cams, verniers, 13:1 compression, silvertop rods, aftermarket airbox and trumpets, wasted spark, Link LEM. Simple and very cheap. 212 at the flywheel.

My 16 valve has, extensive TWR headwork, Kelford race cams (300 advertised duration, 415 thou lift), Arias forged pistons, TRD bearing sets, TRD springs, ARP thru out, aftermarket airbox and trumpets, Lynn Rodgers 4 2 1 exhaust, wasted spark, Link LEM. 167hp at the wheels.

[NA Drifter]

FWD vs RWD, and Weight differences (AE86 arnt heavy).

oh, it is rolling start match.. past the honda in 3rd...

[old schooler]

thank you.

How high you go in the revs to get it?

[RedMist]

The 16 valve is quite a strong motor until 5.5k then its just plain silly up till she runs out of breath at 8k (I told you there was massive head work!!, port size dramatically reduced). My limiter is set at 8.5k.

The 20 valve has considerably milder cams in it (a Kelford rally spec) and from what I have heard comes on cam much earlier and works its way to 8.5 before dropping off. The limiter is set at 9k.

Comparing the two engines on the race course. I appear to have more torque under the curve for my gearset, but he's got me on a short course.

[ROBODISCO_20v]

The best upgrade for any 20v motor would be the cams.
As anyone who's driven one will tell you they have no torque down low. Even a mid set of cams will make a big difference down low & make the car so much easier to drive as you wont have to ring the 5hit out of it.
I drove a freinds blk top with only intake & exhaust mods done & it was like a totally different car compaired to mine with a set of mid cams in it.

[Mr Revhead]

ecu.... my SARD ecu gave it a WHOLE HEAP of extra torque down low.
its midrange is very good. pisses all over a stock one.

[Adamal]

A five figure redline doesn't come cheap.....

[old schooler]

na it dont.
but if im doing cams and internals, might as well do the whole thing right while im there.

altho i have found that i cant go over 10,000 reliably on the stock crank (they have a habit of breaking!!) so it will depend if i wish to spend 5k on a 4340 billet crank...might say 9500-9700 limit and stay with the stock

i take it no one has spent this silly amount of cash on one item of an engine? if they have gone there..where did you go and what cost?

[slighty_sykotic]

Whats the red line of a toyota alantic series motor?

And old schooler, what in particular 4340 billet crank as you speaking off......

Next thing is, why do you wish to rev so high? Why not make huge power at a more senible rev range, like the 4ages redmist speaks off.

[Mr Revhead]

rev limit is 9500

[old schooler]

the crank i speak of is the one that i get made...but no engineering shop wants it as to spin a crank from a solid bit of steel is very labour intensive an expensive. also if any machining is wrong in anyway it will fail, or wont fit, so all specs have to be exact. 0 tolerance for error and no one i know of wants that resoncibility...dont blame them
so that leaves getting one from U.S or overseas somewere.

Why do i want revs?
the longer a torque curve can be held in the higher rev range is what gives good "Kw" figures, but i dont care about that. the engine is to be fitted to a club car and will spend more of its time on the race track than going to the shops. so im intending to build it for that purpus, yet, if i want to go down into town, i can do that too. but its main purpuse will be track work, but just enough bottom end torque to get around town without having to ride the clutch everywhere to get the car moving.

by the way, formula atlantic rev to 12,000+ for 240hp+ thats 16v tho, not 20v and a price tag of around $20,000 (i think)

[Mr Revhead]

what they can rev to, and are limited to by the rules are 2 different things

[old schooler]

ya, thats a good point.

the other thing i wish is that if i build an engine that breaks at say 11,000 and i set a limit of 9750, she will never blow up (unless i downshift over that, or i dont put it together right, or forget to check the oil, water, or she detonates from shit fuel)

[RedMist]

Unfortunately you are incorrect in that supposition.

All race engines wear at a phenominal rate. Clearances are tight or loose depending on thermal expansion, ramp accl is maxed out, buckets shims valves all get a hammering, everything is on the limit.

If you nanna a race engine it will still cost you substancially more to maintain than a standard road engine.

[old schooler]

isnt wear and breaking two different things?

as in the rings, cams, cranks and everything elce that moves wears, escecially the top end with aggressive high lift, long duration cams used in racing for MAX hp, with no comprimise.

the engine i wish to build is of this ask, Be as close as it can be a race engine, but be little bit toned down for both how many ks it will last (more than 20,000) and be a little tractible.

if, by the looks of it, that 300 duration cams and 415" lift is the way to go, then i will look at it. as for everything elce, guess i will just have to build the bloody thing

[Fraud]

I will pull out a dvd if I can tonight, and check up on it. It has some grip racing on it, with a notch back levin versus a liftback, and they are revving to 11,000 'easy' (so to speak!). They do a breakdown of the two motors detailing the slight differences and the similarities. It is in Japanese though, so it may take me a while to get an exact parts catalouge together for you...
They are both 16v motors though, so it may not be of any help?

[Malcolm]

the crank i speak of is the one that i get made...but no engineering shop wants it as to spin a crank from a solid bit of steel is very labour intensive an expensive. also if any machining is wrong in anyway it will fail, or wont fit, so all specs have to be exact. 0 tolerance for error and no one i know of wants that resoncibility...dont blame them
so that leaves getting one from U.S or overseas somewere.

I can't blame nooone for wanting to machine a crank for you from a steel billet - it's a stupid idea! Even a cast steel crank will have better grain structure than one machined from a billet. Not only that but there's no way you'd be able to machine a billet down to the shape of a crank without it distorting. There would need to be a lot of post-machining heat treatment and reshaping of the crank to make it sound, and even then I wouldn't like the chances of it surviving high revs for long.
Also do you even know what 4340 means?