Turbo 20valve Black top (cheap version)

[tomo1985]

Is it possible to run a small turbo one factory internals and ecu?

I was thinking small turbo, intercooled. Only pushing about 5psi.

This would all just be for looks and noise until next year what you guys think?

How much do you think it would cost for a turbo and manifold. What kind turbo would suite?

[Punter]

This has been covered a few times here, you also might wanna try the american forums they seem to do alot of cheap (read dodgey) turbo conversions.

But i would say running 11:1 compression the blacktop isn't gonna like any sorta boost.

I'd say just wait save up and do it right, gze pistons, silvertop rods, and a computer + all the other stuff needed.

[crnkin]

I'd say just wait save up and do it right, gze pistons, silvertop rods, and a computer + all the other stuff needed.

agreed.

well sorta. 5psi on 11:1 isnt gonna be that bad, it will be very nice to drive, and if your gunna put forged internals in it next year, its no big loss if you crack a piston, i ould almost guarantee you wont ruin the block with 5psi, on say a TD04, should be fine aye. Maybe try it, cant hurt too much really, thats how people learnt you could get 200kw from a stock bluetop!

good luck

[Mr Revhead]

well if the psitons handle it you probably will ruin the block. casue when rods snap they can often damage the block..

chances of running 5psi on bog stock blacktop = 0

[Skin]

Rather than start another thread im just gonna hijack this one Im looking at putting a ct26 on my st183, just running the standard 6 psi actuator. I know 2nd gen 3sge's are lower compression than 20v but am i safe(ish) running this setup on an untouched engine? Also what other bits am i going to need, bearing in mind i will just use a 3sgte manifold/downpipe. Been told i will need a new map sensor,again a 3sgte one im assuming, but what else is going to be needed.

Cheers

[crnkin]

before anyone else says it, just start a new thread people in the know on 3s's dont generally look at lacktop tech posts

[Skin]

haha fair enough

[Caveman]

well if the psitons handle it you probably will ruin the block. casue when rods snap they can often damage the block..

chances of running 5psi on bog stock blacktop = 0

Just interested why would the rods snap because of a turbo esp on 5psi?

[Si]

think of your engine trying to take 11 parts of air/fuel, and compress it into 1 part.

now force induct your engine into taking a hell of alot more air/fuel and compress it.

more stress is forced on the internal components, therefore causing things to break. be it the piston or the connecting rod

[crnkin]

i think more to the point 1998 is asking why would they break when they are comparable in size to bluetop rods which can handle 15psi on t3/4. no point arguing it tho

[Si]

blue top is around 9.4:1 compression is it not?

[Mr Revhead]

ahh blacktop rods are TINY compared to bluetop ones.

they are also the weak point in the engine....

just do it right, rebuild with ze/silver top rods aftermarket ecu and more boost

[AceSniper]

mmm blacktop rods are the smallist of all 4age's making them most likley the weakest...

[Caveman]

Well the extra force experienced by rod with forced induction is compressive which shouldnt effect the fracture point too much, I thought this thing to worry about with rods in cracks and fracturing due to excessive revs i.e tensile loading on the inlet stroke.

I guess the other thing to worry about is point loading on the bigends due to fecked bottom end bearings but that shouldnt be apparent until +150,000km in which case you should have replaced the bearings anyway.

[Mr Revhead]

yes thats pretty much correct.
but imo blacktop rods are pretty border line in a stock car...

besides the rods... the stock ecu wont let you run boost. these cars are made for 100 octane in N/A spec.....

[crnkin]

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech ... onnec2.jpg

above is bluetop rod- good for 200kw at the fly

http://www.billzilla.org/4agrods.jpg

above is blacktop rod beside a HUGE redtop rod.

weight difference- ~5grams (from club-4ag)

like i said no point arguing- make up your own mind

[Caveman]

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/Rods/Connec2.jpg

above is bluetop rod- good for 200kw at the fly

http://www.billzilla.org/4agrods.jpg

above is blacktop rod beside a HUGE redtop rod.

weight difference- ~5grams (from club-4ag)

like i said no point arguing- make up your own mind

No arguing, just debating.

Would you know how the redtop rod compares to size with the blue top rod?

Anyway answering the original question: Yes you can but it will be inherently unreliable. You can intropolate fuel maps using a 2bar map sensor and larger (idealy twice the size) injectors however the disadvantage will be timing. The timing will advance as revs increase as oppose to most turbo cars which retart the timing as the revs increase.

The stock pistons will most probably die on the first sign of detonation.

I would suggest intercooling and water injection to keep the temperature as low as possible.

Can be done though.

[crnkin]

No arguing, just debating.

Would you know how the redtop rod compares to size with the blue top rod?

Anyway answering the original question: Yes you can but it will be inherently unreliable. You can intropolate fuel maps using a 2bar map sensor and larger (idealy twice the size) injectors however the disadvantage will be timing. The timing will advance as revs increase as oppose to most turbo cars which retart the timing as the revs increase.

The stock pistons will most probably die on the first sign of detonation.

I would suggest intercooling and water injection to keep the temperature as low as possible.

Can be done though.

the redtop non tvis rods are MASSIVE, theyre in that pic above with the bluetop.

other than that, agreed. But id do it if i had a blacktop sitting there, no harm in trying really, whats a block with a leg outta bed.

But then again blacktops have quite a good powerband anyways, probly just goi stock and buy an at141