High CR street engines.

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RomanV
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High CR street engines.

Post by RomanV »

Ive just been on the phone to Lynn Rogers, to ask how my engine is coming along.
He told me something rather surprising!
(Regarding my redtop 3SGE that they're working on)

They will be machining down the crowns on the pistons, and doing some very minor head porting to lower the CR to about 10:1 or so. (From 11:1 factory CR)
He said you cant really run a CR much higher than when running the engine on 98.
Which I suppose is beleivable... considering I am rebuilding this engine from when it detonated to death on NZ gas :cry:
However I was rather surprised to hear this, to say the least!
It seems a bit... backwards to lower the compression on an NA motor that you're building.
If it was anyone else, I would ask them what they've been smoking......
But its Lynn Rogers!
Im not going to pretend to know better, or know even anywhere near what he knows about engines.

However I still found it rather surprising that he said that, considering that a lot of modern Japanese NA engines run CR's of about 11:1.

Perhaps this is why a lot of high CR Japanese engines are often under acheivers when compared to factory figures?

Perhaps they are be losing power, from having to retard the ignition timing to prevent detonation when running this CR with 98 octane gas.
Perhaps this is also why a lot of people comment that Altezzas seem a bit gutless.
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Punter
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Re: High CR street engines.

Post by Punter »

RomanV wrote:
Perhaps this is why a lot of high CR Japanese engines are often under acheivers when compared to factory figures?

Perhaps they are be losing power, from having to retard the ignition timing to prevent detonation when running this CR with 98 octane gas.
Perhaps this is also why a lot of people comment that Altezzas seem a bit gutless.


Yea i would agree with that, could also be why 20v aren't even close to what there meant to be :lol:
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Post by MikeMan »

That must be a 3SGE thing.

-OR-

Lynn is being cautious.

You should have a knock sensor of the 3SGE and that should keep the engine safe.

The 4G92 MIVEC runs 11:1 CR and that is FINE on BP Ultimate, it is a little wooley on Mobil Synergy 8000 and any other 95/96 octane gas in NZ.
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RomanV
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Post by RomanV »

Yeah, perhaps it is a 3sge thing.

He's done a million of them before, so I doubt he would go to the trouble without legitimate reasons.

I'll pester him about it some more later, I'll try and find out exactly why he has decided on this, and what impact it will possibly have on the engine.
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Post by Caveman »

Thats a VVTI engine right?

Maybe its for the dynamic compression at high rpm, high lobe, long duration & advanced timing? Dont want it to go pop.

Just a guess...
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Post by BZR4AGE »

i don't think is just a 3SGE thing. becoz on my 20V (blacktop), i am going to upgrade to toda forge piston which will increase the compression ratio. and people have advice me that 98 won't do the trick. so i can't have a TRD head gasket which i was planning to have, instead i am sticking to a genuine toyota head gasket - just to keep the compression down a bit. hahaha, maybe thts why we should all go TURBO .

But personally it will be more satisifying to be faster than ppl in a NA car.
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Post by RomanV »

BZR4AGE wrote:hahaha, maybe thts why we should all go TURBO .


Yeah, Im starting to wonder why I thought it would be a good idea to spend so much rebuilding an NA. :?

I should have just swapped in a gen 2 3sgte, bolted on a CT20B, and killed myself in my car already. :P


Although slightly back on topic....
I suppose at the end of the day, Id rather have a 10:1 CR engine that I can treat like a red headed stepchild, than an 11:1 CR engine that is more fragile.
Last edited by RomanV on Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TRD Man »

Hmmmm, that's interesting. We ran our 3SGE rally engine with 11.8 to 1 CR.
We ran it on Avgas mostly but on occasions we ran 96. It was fine.

Another interesting fact - the Team Toyota Coronas that ran in the NZ Touring Car Champs a few years ago were decompressed down to 10 ~ 1 to comply with the regulations.
Yet they had good power and masses of torque. All in the cams I believe.
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Post by RomanV »

Well I suppose I'll just have to wait and see how it will turn out, hopefully it will still perform well.

But yes it is interesting....
As most high performance pistons etc. for NA engines RAISE the CR considerably.

Like the TODA pistons that take the 2ZZ to 13:1. 8O

But I suppose you wouldnt have a shit show of running that kind of compression on 98 octane.
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Post by crnkin »

RomanV wrote:Well I suppose I'll just have to wait and see how it will turn out, hopefully it will still perform well.

But yes it is interesting....
As most high performance pistons etc. for NA engines RAISE the CR considerably.

Like the TODA pistons that take the 2ZZ to 13:1. 8O

But I suppose you wouldnt have a sh*t show of running that kind of compression on 98 octane.


yes but remember you can just run more fuel, just because the burning rate of the fuel is lower doesnt mean you cant just put more fuel in in the first place, of course its less efficient that way..
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Post by Drifter4ag »

my friends engine runs 12.7:1 on bp 98 ..
it does not detonate.. it runs alot of timing .. it makes ALOT of power.. and it was built by Lyn ... 11:1 is stock black top CR .. are you sure you havent misheard him ?
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Post by Stealer Of Souls »

Isn't jappa hi-octane pump like 101 octane?
If it is, that could be the difference. NZ has pretty crud fuel other than the 98 octanes. But perhaps that extra 3 octane is the problem.
Avgas is 103???
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Post by ChaosAD »

But 'redmist's four age is putting down 175 an it only has a cr of about 10.sumthing from memory.
Its not about any one part of the engine, but getting the right combination
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Post by RomanV »

Well Ive just been back on the phone to Lynn.....

Complete misunderstanding!

He had two different 'davids' calling him yesterday, he was talking to me as if I was the other.

The compression ratio is fine at 11:1, and will be unchanged.

I thought what he was saying was a bit over the top, he was talking about someone elses 1300cc mini engine. :lol:

*Phew!* Big weight off my mind.

And my engine is ready to be picked up. 8)
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Post by Malcolm »

woohooo
get ya head off!
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Post by fuel »

How much did it cost you just out of curiousity?

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RomanV
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Post by RomanV »

How much did what cost me?
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Post by dodgy »

That sounds better RomanV.
Almost ready to fire up my 3sge, at 12.2:1, so you have me worried!
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Post by fuel »

RomanV wrote:How much did what cost me?


.. whatever work you had done to the engine? Sorry was under the impression you had a complete rebuild - but I'm still curious as to how much he charged for whatever work was done.
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11to 1

Post by Celica RA45 »

dont let him for $&#$% sake ,shit that annoys me when considering im running 12to 1 on 98 fuel with vvti and i have no problems at all and im in the stages of building the new motor out 2 12.4 to 1 comp and that will be fine as well but only vvti on inlet only and cam has 540 thou lift with 500 on the exhaust and idles at 750rpm the combustion chambers are so much better than the gen 3
well if he is going to $&#$% it ,i hope he buys you new pistons for it
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