3SGTE compatibility...

[Ako]

Okay, had an unfortunate incident which has lead to me being unable to get the forged bottom end. Damnit.

Anyway - so now I'm just going to throw a complete engine in there. Question is, can I use the engine from a GT4 as well as one from an MR2? I'm assuming its just a matter of different mounts and I'm away?

[Lanius]

Correct. Theres a couple of bits that have to be relocated, but nothing major.

[Ako]

Sweet. Much difference - core engine wise - between the ST165, 185, and 205 engines?

Just trying to find all this out BEFORE I start calling round wreckers etc.

[RomanV]

IIRC the coolant 'neck' is different between GT4 and SW20.

As well as alternator in a different place, and a few other minor differences which could make it a PITA.

Would be better to get an MR2 one if possible.

I know someone with a celica+ MR2 engine who wants to swap the MR2 neck he has for a GT4 one though, if it is any help.

PM me if interested.

[Lanius]

Sweet. Much difference - core engine wise - between the ST165, 185, and 205 engines?

Just trying to find all this out BEFORE I start calling round wreckers etc.

viewtopic.php?t=12520&highlight=3sgte+lsd

[Low_Aa63]

as i am led to beleive any 4wd mounted 3stgte has had the factory mounting holes for the enginge mounts on the inlet side ground off from factory.
this is what i was told and also reaserched from various sites on the net when i was undertaking my 3sgte project!!

[Ako]

Cheers for that, much appreciated. Guess I'd better find a Gen 2 MR2 3SGTE, save myself some headaches!

[fivebob]

as i am led to beleive any 4wd mounted 3stgte has had the factory mounting holes for the enginge mounts on the inlet side ground off from factory.
this is what i was told and also reaserched from various sites on the net when i was undertaking my 3sgte project!!

Pardon my ignorance, but what engine mounts are on the intake side?

[Malcolm]

Sweet. Much difference - core engine wise - between the ST165, 185, and 205 engines?

Just trying to find all this out BEFORE I start calling round wreckers etc.

Depends what you consider the core engine
the head is vastly different on the st205
the st165 and st185 heads are very similar, only difference I know of is that the mounting points for the st165 fuel rail are for a top feed, st185 are for a side feed rail. Not too hard to alter though I would imagine
Also there was something different about the 165 head, I can't remember what it was but I believe you can't get aftermarket cams for them very easily, mostly just regrinds. I will check on this anyway.

[Ako]

Ok, well in a nutshell I need a replacement for my SW20, its the early kind (Gen 2?).

I'm new to all the weird little intricacies these cars have, so just bear with me here. I need an engine, which is able to be bolted into, and run, in my wee car, and I'm trying to find out if I have to use the exact same one it came with, or if I can do some interchanging between models.

[fivebob]

A Gen II or Gen III from an SW20 will drop in, though the Gen III will require the hose from the thermostat housing changed to the Gen III one.

A Gen II from a ST185 or a Gen III from a ST205 will require you to swap the Engine mount, alternator brackets and possibly the thermostat housing.

Gen III engines are MAP based, and have a different loom so you will need to fit your existing loom to the engine if you want to use your existing ECU. IIRC the knock sensor has a different plug so you will need to swap the sensor from your old engine.

A Gen IV from a ST215 Caldina will require you to swap engine mount, Alternator brackets and possibly thermostat housing, it will also require machining of the block to attach the axle bearing carrier. If fitting a complete engine then you will also need an aftermarket ECU as it's a totally different ignition system. If fitting your aftermarket cams then the intake cam will need machining to fit the cam position trigger.

None of these engines in stock form will last very long with a T78 so I would suggest that you save your pennies and do the job properly, unless you like collecting scrap metal.

[Low_Aa63]

as i am led to beleive any 4wd mounted 3stgte has had the factory mounting holes for the enginge mounts on the inlet side ground off from factory.
this is what i was told and also reaserched from various sites on the net when i was undertaking my 3sgte project!!

Pardon my ignorance, but what engine mounts are on the intake side?

The ones attatched to the block, you cant use a gt4 3sgte in rwd or mr2 without making a plate for the engine mout to bolt to then bolt the plate to different locater holes on the block as the origanal has been ground of from factory.

[Ako]

T78 is being flicked off anyway, I'm going for something driveable rather than the 6000rpm spool the T78 gave.

Cheers for that answer fivebob, its much appreciated and everything I (hopefully) needed to know.

[Malcolm]

as i am led to beleive any 4wd mounted 3stgte has had the factory mounting holes for the enginge mounts on the inlet side ground off from factory.
this is what i was told and also reaserched from various sites on the net when i was undertaking my 3sgte project!!

Pardon my ignorance, but what engine mounts are on the intake side?

The ones attatched to the block, you cant use a gt4 3sgte in rwd or mr2 without making a plate for the engine mout to bolt to then bolt the plate to different locater holes on the block as the origanal has been ground of from factory.

no. gt4s and mr2s use the same engine mount locations, actually I should say location because there's only one mount on the engine and it's on the cambelt end, just below the tensioner. When I have my mr2 motor out I'll let you know if there's any difference in bosses on the back to my gt4 motor.

[fivebob]

you cant use a gt4 3sgte in rwd or mr2 without making a plate for the engine mout to bolt to then bolt the plate to different locater holes on the block as the origanal has been ground of from factory.

Then you'd best tell all those people that have fitted a ST185/205 motor to a SW20, without such modifications, that they only need do five more impossible things and they can round it off with breakfast at Milliways

[Low_Aa63]

are you not paying attention...i said "that is what i have found on the internet and such" sheesh

[fivebob]

are you not paying attention...i said "that is what i have found on the internet and such" sheesh

In which case, your abject, grovelling apology for posting internet rumors in the Tech forum is accepted, just don't do it again

[Low_Aa63]

ofcourse....thankyou.....

[Lanius]

[RunningRich]

As one of the species nearing extinction (ie. those who have actually seen the engines being discussed, let alone worked on, or God forbid actually owned) may I offer up my humble experiences.

A 3S-GTE from a MR2 has several differences from that in a GT-Four. The differences are significant in that to obtain all the additional parts required can be very expensive and time consuming if you get the wrong engine.

Who here knows that on the Gen 3 the timing cover is different?

Here are my rough notes:

http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/3S-GTE%20Conversion.htm

Of course you may have read different on the internet so please correct me.