Tips and techniques for running in recond engine. Pls.

[Stealer Of Souls]

Hey everyone.

Well engine is at the reconditioners to get cleaned and tided up before I put them all together again.

Once that's done I"ll have a freshly reconditioned engine in the car...

Oh yeah. The engine is a Blue top 4AGE with TVIS (I'm planning to reconnect it...) and compression raised to around 10:1, otherwise standard.

So who has good tips/techniques for running in the engine?
Things to do? Things to watch out for? Things to avoid? Anything you've found that helps make the process easier/quicker? How long? How far?

I've heard so far:
Approx 1000km is needed to ensure proper seating(??) of the rings.
During this time no high RPM, try to vary RPM a lot and use as much of the rev range as possible (but still avoiding too much high RPM).
Use good quality mineral oil (is castrol GTX (white) okay?)
After completing the first 1000km change oil and filter and still try to be kind for the next 4000km or so.

Also got told a good thing to try and do is bursts of WOT from low to med RPM.

[Mr Revhead]

one thing iv been told and read in many places is once youv started it and ensured all as it should be take it for a drive and put it under load. like full throttle in 5th from 80kays accel to 100 and repeat.
you need load on the rings to bed them.
modern bearings etc dont need bugger all running in.

[MrBob]

vary the revs and load it up. High rpm is fine. You need to load in up alot in the first 1000 or so K. This is because loading it up will force the rings against the cross hatching on the bore and cause them to wear in and seal correctly. If you dont load it up enough before the x hatching wears off the rings wont wear in a seal as well.

I used a fairly think oil 20w/40, mineral, and changed every 1000 Ks for the first few thousand.

[Stealer Of Souls]

So far so good. Matches what I've heard (more or less).
Maybe what I was told was meant to be, try to avoid sustained high rpm?

[drftnmaz]

yea pretty much right... high load once upto temp
acc and eng braking.

i'd normally change oil after 50k's then 500 then 1000, then at normall intervals....

[MrBob]

So far so good. Matches what I've heard (more or less).
Maybe what I was told was meant to be, try to avoid sustained high rpm?

yeah, avoid any sustained revs, cos under those conditions its not loading up the rings and forcing them to wear against the cross hatching. When I ran mine in I did most of it through hilly country roads so the revs were always changing, accelerating and decelerating.

[Stealer Of Souls]

Cool.
I was thinking a good spirited drive out to Piha for me. That is a nice twisty section with lots of up and down, and a 100kph speed limit.

So I should avoid sustaining anyone one given RPM too much and try to do high load stuff. But to that end I can kinda "give the engine hell". Just don't be silly with it.

[fivebob]

Cool.
I was thinking a good spirited drive out to Piha for me. That is a nice twisty section with lots of up and down, and a 100kph speed limit.

So I should avoid sustaining anyone one given RPM too much and try to do high load stuff.

Arrrgh, no, no no no. High load is not a good idea, and anyone who recommends it needs to be questioned as to what the mean by "high" load.

While you need adequate combustion pressure to force the rings out against the bore, excessive load on the engine up will cause all sorts of issues with bearings, temperature, and if you over do it you may well find that the ring tension suffers.

Depending on the finish of the bores you may need little running in, and in fact could just drive the engine normally, although avoiding constant rpm and excessive labouring of the engine.

If the reconditioner used modern equipment to obtain a factory like finish on the bores then I wouldn't even bother about a special proceedure for "running in'. If, however, the finish is they typical rough crosshatching that most reconditioners employ then I would ensure that you rev it freely, impose light loads at low rpm and not do any sustained high rpm driving. Also avoiding long runs is a good idea as is heat cycling the engine, i.e. let it cool down between runs.

[fivebob]

Here's acouple of links for you, while not directly answering the questions of running in they do provide the reader with some understanding of ring function and bore finish requirements.
The Piston rind museum: http://www.riken.co.jp/e/piston/index.html

Cylinder bore surface finishes: http://www.aa1car.com/library/2000/ar90058.htm

[Stealer Of Souls]

ARGH confused about load now...

[fivebob]

ARGH confused about load now...

High loads to be avoided are where the rpm is at or below peak torque, e.g. Mr Revheads suggestion of "full throttle in 5th from 80kays accel to 100" is, IMHO ,a very bad idea, especially if you've done bearings as well. That sort of load generates too much heat, and 70% of the heat transferred from the piston to the cylinder goes through the rings.

High load as in free revving in the lower gears above the peak torque rpm, will give adequate combustion pressure to force the top ring against the cylinder wall without the resultant strain and heat that laboured running gives. N.B. it's only the top ring that really relies on combustion pressure to force it against the cylinder wall, the second ring and oil control rings really only have ring tension to supply the pressure.

[Adamal]

I'd stay away from Piha road and Scenic drive if I were you. A "spirited" drive out there will probably lead you to push your engine further than you should without realising it. When driving around there like that, your subconcious takes over the control over the engine, when it should be your concious mind.

I'd say just take it out for a cruise around there, but keep it that way

[Mr Revhead]

interesting fivebob..... iv been told that method by several engine builders and mechanics (note mechanics not parts swappers) and the local tech teaches that method

[fivebob]

interesting fivebob..... iv been told that method by several engine builders and mechanics (note mechanics not parts swappers) and the local tech teaches that method

Strange, every engine manufacturer I've seen recommends that you don't do this, even my new tractor engine manual says not to load the engine, and I assume Daimler-Benz knows what they are talking about

In reality there's probably little you can do if the block preparation is not up to standard. From the article on surface finish it's easy to see that good ring seal should be there before the engine is started, and it's a myth that any run in procedure can avoid, or even cause, problems like excessive oil burn, as these are generally caused by incorrect honing technique

And finally, for optimum assurance of proper surface finish and bore geometry, many rebuilders also vacuum test the cylinders to make sure the rings are giving the proper seal after the engine has been assembled.

[Mr Revhead]

Daimler-Benz

youd think the longest running car maker would.... but working on thier cars changes your perception

maybe im wrong on the full throttle part, but it was defitly that speed range to apply load to the rings.

ah well, im no engine builder so im gunna go read those articles fivebob posted

[no_8wire]

I'd stay away from Piha road and Scenic drive if I were you. A "spirited" drive out there will probably lead you to push your engine further than you should without realising it. When driving around there like that, your subconcious takes over the control over the engine, when it should be your concious mind.

Oh yeah!

[fivebob]

Daimler-Benz

youd think the longest running car maker would.... but working on thier cars changes your perception

Luckily for me they only made the engine, and tractors are easier to work on than cars

maybe im wrong on the full throttle part, but it was defitly that speed range to apply load to the rings.

Don't see anything wrong in applying full throttle, but 5th gear is not a good idea, 3rd gear may be more appropriate.

ah well, im no engine builder so im gunna go read those articles fivebob posted

Even engine builders don't always know or agree with each other on the black art of running in.

Most of the engines I've run in don't have rings, so the procedures are slightly different as piston seal is determined by interference fit and bore taper, and for the sake of the bearings the engine must be lightly loaded but run at close to operating RPM, although you still need to vary the RPM. Over the years I've observed that the engines that I've run in properly before being subject to load perform better than those where I didn't have time for a careful run in procedure. I've always applied the same procedures to automotive engines and never had a problem and the engines have always performed as well as, or better than, most.

[Caveman]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Might add to your soup of uncertainty.

If I were you, do what the engine builder told you.

[Akane]

I've came across a dozen different bedding in procedures, but there are other things just as important when rebuilding.

1) Make sure big end bearings are geniune toyota items, and to the specs.
2) Make sure engine builders don't leave craploads of sand in the engine from sand blasting.
3) A long drive is not recommended, try heat cycling (going up to the shops and buy some stuff, drive it normal distances), for 1000kms or so.
4) make sure no leaks, no, seriously.

I personally recommend the "take it easy" method. Because modern technologies means the rings don't really need to wear itself to fit the shape of the bores (and vice-versa).

I'd fill it up with oil, take it around the block just once
Then come back, drain all oil, to get rid of the pre-lube and loose metal bits.
fill it up again, 500kms
drain oil, fill oil, another 500kms.

Make sure filter changes are done too.

[Stealer Of Souls]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Might add to your soup of uncertainty.

If I were you, do what the engine builder told you.

It's quite interesting.
To some degree this article re-inforces what most are saying. Give it moderate loads across the range...

Does everyone recommend an oil change after the first 100km(??) and then again at 1000km? Or would one at 1000km be okay?
I understand that you're removing the oil to remove all the metal particles. But people are suggesting I change the oil like 4 times in the first 1000km which seems a little excessive. But then again I don't know.