Help with steering ideas on project 4wdsub-RWDtoy

[barryogen]

ok, after messing around with the idea of adding boost to my daily driver, I decided it isn't such a good idea(need car to get to work etc), so a project car is in order(until finished then add boost to current daily driver).

Initially I was looking at older Toyotas, but I'm not really into it, so then to the Subarus.

I like the look of impreza sedans, but don't like the cost of repairs to engine and drivetrain.

So a Toyota engine is the go, I'm thinking 1uzfe or 1jzgte, and from measuring, it will be f'ing tight, but should be possible, except I'm stumped on the front end(steering mostly).

Initial thoughts were to go the replace the lot with something from a FR car, but it just struck me that if I simply remove the half shafts etc, then it should "work" as-is...

Can someone either tell me I'm right/wrong about the steering, and if wrong, point me in the right direction?

[barryogen]

and before anyone mentions it, I know it's an odd project, but it's what I would like to do.

[CozmoNz]

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I heard that drift WRX just had the front half shafts removed, (the propper drift one), and that rungi guy in chch who got fked up by a tree, i bet he probbaly did the same.....

[wde_bdy]

Haven't looked under a Subaru to confirm, but most FWD's or car style 4WD's mount the steering rack up high where it will pass through the middle of the engine/gearbox rather than under it. Either tube chassis the front or adapt an crossmember with rack attached that is a suitable width from a RWD car. Biggest issue with this approach would be the chassis rails being too high but that can be worked around, would need to get strut towers into correct position as well. Gearbox tunnel can be made or adapted from a different car as it will be too small.
Basically you need skill, money, lateral thinking or all three.
Remember, make a plan, measure up and discuss with a certifier before you start.

Callum

PS - Not much chance of fitting any normal RWD motor up to the Subaru box so no point just removing halfshafts, just rip all the Subaru bits out of the front and throw them away.

[Malcolm]

subarus have a longitudinal engine, and the gearbox is similar in appearance to a normal RWD box but it has a diff sitting under and slightly behind the bellhousing. This means the bellhousing probably wont be sitting behind the firewall, so there wont be a nice big hole for a RWD gearbox to be mounted in a traditional location (ie almost entirely behind the firewall). Also because a subaru engine is only 2 cylinders long, you wont fit anything much bigger in without moving the gearbox back to a normal rwd location, so that probably means a bit of trans tunnel/firewall modification.

I don't think you'll fit a 6 cyl either, I think you'd be best to go 1UZ.

I'm not sure where the steering rack sits on the subarus, but since the engine is in a RWD layout you can probably work around it.

Finally I'd wonder about the strength of the rear diff, although I don't know enough about subarus to comment on that.

[gordon77]

Finally I'd wonder about the strength of the rear diff, although I don't know enough about subarus to comment on that.

my mate blew his rear diff (98 gt legacy) at 115000 k's. car is and has been stock its whole life

[barryogen]

subarus have a longitudinal engine, and the gearbox is similar in appearance to a normal RWD box but it has a diff sitting under and slightly behind the bellhousing. This means the bellhousing probably wont be sitting behind the firewall, so there wont be a nice big hole for a RWD gearbox to be mounted in a traditional location (ie almost entirely behind the firewall). Also because a subaru engine is only 2 cylinders long, you wont fit anything much bigger in without moving the gearbox back to a normal rwd location, so that probably means a bit of trans tunnel/firewall modification.

I don't think you'll fit a 6 cyl either, I think you'd be best to go 1UZ.

I'm not sure where the steering rack sits on the subarus, but since the engine is in a RWD layout you can probably work around it.

Finally I'd wonder about the strength of the rear diff, although I don't know enough about subarus to comment on that.

The UZ should fit from the measurements I've made, the 6 is probably going to be too tight to bother(without cutting the front off, pulling it out a bit further, and re-sticking it on, but I don't see it being certified without some serious cash.

The rear diff will likely be replaced, it used to be(not sure on the newer ones) made of glass, or atleast seemed like it, there is a pretty good after market for them.

The tunnel space for the gearbox will need modifying, but it wasn't as bad as I originally thought, I'll need to check if the autos and manuals are different in the subs, as the GB for each is different physical sizes(can't remember which is bigger).



Thanks for the replies sofar guys, most helpful, it appears that half-shaft removal "should" work according to the local subaru wrecker(he has a RWD).

[fangsport]

steering rack is with engine crossmember.
anything could be adapted to the subaru box with a plate, especailly if RWD, as the CV's won't have radical angles on them if the box is moved back.
1uz fits a 700 x700x700 cavity, the subaru engine bay would be wide enough but maybe not high enough.
the diffs can be an issue, but are interchangeable with the nissan IRS units.

[barryogen]

steering rack is with engine crossmember.
anything could be adapted to the subaru box with a plate, especailly if RWD, as the CV's won't have radical angles on them if the box is moved back.
1uz fits a 700 x700x700 cavity, the subaru engine bay would be wide enough but maybe not high enough.
the diffs can be an issue, but are interchangeable with the nissan IRS units.

thanks for that I was working on a 730mm cube, so if it fints in smaller, should be good, slight sticking out the top wouldn't be too bad, as long as it is drivable, will check with certing fullas on those sorts of conditions(frontal view).

[Mr Revhead]

the bellhousing face on subarus is well forward of the firewall...
so as malcom said you'll probably be looking at relocating that. so may as well fit a w5# while your at it. therefore getting rid of the 4wd crap aswell.
if you keep the subaru box there is a kit you can get to lock the centre diff for when u remove the front shafts.

but i reckon w5# is the best option

[barryogen]

the bellhousing face on subarus is well forward of the firewall...
so as malcom said you'll probably be looking at relocating that. so may as well fit a w5# while your at it. therefore getting rid of the 4wd crap aswell.
if you keep the subaru box there is a kit you can get to lock the centre diff for when u remove the front shafts.

but i reckon w5# is the best option

The impreza gear will all be going, just keeping it initially to roll it onto a trailer, and into the workshop.

indeed the W5x is the best option(well barring an R154 but cash isn't that unlimited) and will be the way I go.

[deaf_rattle]

but i reckon w5# is the best option

1uz will only break the w series box, unless you can get a late model w58 from a jza80.
i would lean more towards the 300zx manual box

[Caveman]

If I were you.

Step 1: Buy impreza. Get actual measurement and an actual feel for what could or couldnt be done. If you dont you make a lot of assumptions and it only takes one to go wrong to cause a big problem.

Definatly not saying it cant be done, infact I love the idea but you really need to know what your working with.

If your dedicated buy a subaru with blown engine/no engine and study what you can cant do. If you want to use the subaru drivetrain study where it sits and what could be done. As soon as you try do things like 'move the gearbox back' it can start to get really really expensive. New shafts, mounts, relocate shifter, move everthing thats in the way i.e. hand brake cables, exhaust, may need to mash chassis to make room. One little task turns into many small tasks

That maybe entirely false but its an example of how expensive and difficult things can get. It could be as easy are a shorter bell housing but then there will be other difficult tasks which will consume time and money.

So if I were you buy the impreza and go from there.

Im in the same boat, non-toyota car + toyota engine = much fun

and good luck with it

[RS13]

I just don't see the point.

I like the look of impreza sedans, but don't like the cost of repairs to engine and drivetrain.

Can I just say, I almost didn't bother reading anything after that sentence.

You're complaining (no offence man, just stating facts!) that its' going to cost too much to run a Subaru with a factory-fitted EJ20, when what you want to do (throwing a huge, rwd non-Subaru motor into a 4WD platform, make massive body modifications to make it fit, then spending thousands getting a decent, reliable drivetrain setup) is going to cost much, much more than say, several rebuilds of the factory EJ20.

The rwd Subaru conversion has been done, and done successfully, I even looked into buying an RS Legacy myself for that purpose, but don't really like the shape! All you need to do, is remove/blank off the front driveshafts, remove the centre LSD, and weld it up, theres' even an aussie website with step-by-step instructions, its' that simple. Many of these guys are running factory differentials with no issues, if you're worried about breaking things, you could always upgrade to an STi unit?

Sorry to ramble, but if you can't find any info about it anywhere, that usually means that other people have tried, and the end result won't be worth it..

[gdsup]

ok, heres my 2 cents
me and jerry ferryartu had a auto wrx, pulled the centre diff lock fuse and removed front driveshaft, even with standard worn shocks it handled better and was much more fun than ur average skyline/cefiro.

alot of potential here, then we had a think about how much we could thrash it before it would break ( because we couldnt be bothered fixing it )
after research and talking to many people who have rwd and skidded the cars we decided

ej20 is good motor, main thing would be seperate fuel system for each rail, not hard

box will blow no matter what version sti blah blah - because we wanted to keep ej20, custom bell housing to suit, no easy sat afternoon job, but not to bad,

Diffs, same goes, most people had spent $$$ on the latest sti etc diff and late models shafts, we figured although once again a bit of fab required something like a nissan type r200 and axles could be made to fit with a bit of cutom work

1uz would be very cool but think it would hard height wise

[barryogen]

If I were you.

Step 1: Buy impreza. Get actual measurement and an actual feel for what could or couldnt be done. If you dont you make a lot of assumptions and it only takes one to go wrong to cause a big problem.

Subaru wrecker loaned me one, engine removed to have a look around.

As soon as you try do things like 'move the gearbox back' it can start to get really really expensive. New shafts, mounts, relocate shifter, move everthing thats in the way i.e. hand brake cables, exhaust, may need to mash chassis to make room. One little task turns into many small tasks

I know, I'm well aware of it, most of it will end up being custom work, alot of the donkey work I'm going to be doing myself, I have use of a workshop/hoist/welding gear, which I can do the stuff thats not seen(I'm not good).

So if I were you buy the impreza and go from there.

I'm trying to find an appropriate one at the moment, trade and exchange is out tomorrow, if anything like the last couple of weeks, theres working ones really cheap, all it needs is a straight-ish body, the rest doesn't matter.

Im in the same boat, non-toyota car + toyota engine = much fun
and good luck with it

Thanks.

[THA SHZ]

As soon as you try do things like 'move the gearbox back' it can start to get really really expensive. New shafts, mounts, relocate shifter, move everthing thats in the way i.e. hand brake cables, exhaust, may need to mash chassis to make room. One little task turns into many small tasks

I know, I'm well aware of it, most of it will end up being custom work, alot of the donkey work I'm going to be doing myself, I have use of a workshop/hoist/welding gear, which I can do the stuff thats not seen(I'm not good).[/quote]

remeber that wen u take it for cert theywill x-ray ur welds and inspect thouroughly so be careful , generally if u arent the greatest at it i wood be gettin someoneelse to do it , as ur putting alot of faith in mounts etc

but good luk with the conversion it sounds like alot of fun and its good to see something with a cando attitude !